| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| dream on |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 07:33:01 AM
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-world/20120312/AS.Afghanistan/?cid=hero_media
Was wondering what some of you thought of this |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| stuckinbfa |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 08:26:34 AM
Hello from hell. I am in Bagram Afghanistan were the Bagram Book Burning Club was started, the site of the Koran burnings. We take incoming 3-4 times a week. The last 2 nights ago, a mortar hit 200 meters from where I was sleeping. I know how it is over here. Not all Afghans are bad people. I have to deal with some locals that work on base every day. We shake hands and they do not hate Americans, they hate the Taliban for what they have done to their country. I have seen burned children, the results of IED, on people and MRAP's. WAR is hell. Dont hate all Afghans, hate the Taliban..
From the Arm pit of the world. |
| skinneej |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 11:03:26 PM
BTW - Most articles suggest that his lawyer is not denying the killings and that they will likely persue some type of insanity defense... |
| skinneej |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 10:55:40 PM
More fun reading:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/afghan_massacre_suspect_robert_bales_W0QNCVz0QbOrwcbuodyM1I
Got him a good lawyer too!
"John Henry Browne, a Seattle-based criminal lawyer who has represented serial rapist and killer Ted Bundy and other convicted killers, told CNN late Tuesday he expects Staff Sgt. Robert Bales will be charged with "homicide and a bunch of other charges."
Maybe a little history:
"The News Tribune in Tacoma, Wash., said Bales was arrested for the drunken assault of a casino security guard.
Bales threatened a customer at the Silver Dollar Casino in Tacoma and was asked to leave, according to the report.
But after leaving the facility, Bales ran towards two security guards with a trash can lid, before punching one of the guards in the chest.
The charge was dismissed after Bales completed 20 hours of anger management training" |
| skinneej |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 10:51:39 PM
It's not looking too good for you guys' "terrorist slaying hero"...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46815403/ns/us_news-life/
"Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, the U.S. soldier accused of killing 16 civilians in Afghanistan left for war without paying his part of a $1.5 million judgment for defrauding an elderly client in a stock scheme, and remains shielded from the obligation as long as he remains in the military, legal experts said."
Oh wait... Let me guess.... He gets a free pass since he is "fighting for our freedoms" and we don't have a right to talk negatively about him... Did I get that right?
|
| skinneej |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 10:25:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by justretired
are we going to judge this SOLIDER on what the afghans are reported or what they are now saying that more of our troops where out there killing those men, women an children.
we know this SOLDIER did this horriable act but who is to blame ? we
will never know, the SOLDIER. OUR GOV ?
we know this soldier has been over there too many time and has purple hearts to show for it. And what did the VA or his dr's do for him?
have done 2 tours an came home when the only thing we got was SPIT ON an called BABY KILLERS. Got no help for years. can't help but wonder what would have happen if I had been deployed 4 time to watch
MY GUYS go home in body bags an to hospital where knowing if THEY lived THEY would never be the same or there FAMILY"S
let our judicial system work.
Some of you guys need a valium... Nobody is suggesting that we hang him without asking any questions. Of course, we support a fair trial. But if\when is is found guilty, a "mental insanity" plea isn't going to cut it... I'm not sure that I believe that people capable of such acts can be "treated" and re-released into the wild.
Yes, it is a shame that a traumatic experience may have led him to do this, and yes it's a shame that he is a soldier serving his country... But once you are ****ed in the head, you are ****ed for life. So, if he is guilty, then the question is, what becomes of him NOW? Some people just check out of reality. When they do, they are a danger to society no matter who's "fault" it is... |
| skinneej |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 10:19:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tacoma
Whats the old saying kill them all and let God sort them out. Need to do afghanistan like Japan wipe it off the map and to hell with the sand fleas.
Yeah, genocide sounds very "Godly"... Which commandment was it where we are supposed to kill women and children hoping that they don't breed more terrorists again? Was that Old Testament or New? I get confused sometimes. |
| justretired |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 9:04:34 PM
are we going to judge this SOLIDER on what the afghans are reported or what they are now saying that more of our troops where out there killing those men, women an children.
we know this SOLDIER did this horriable act but who is to blame ? we
will never know, the SOLDIER. OUR GOV ?
we know this soldier has been over there too many time and has purple hearts to show for it. And what did the VA or his dr's do for him?
have done 2 tours an came home when the only thing we got was SPIT ON an called BABY KILLERS. Got no help for years. can't help but wonder what would have happen if I had been deployed 4 time to watch
MY GUYS go home in body bags an to hospital where knowing if THEY lived THEY would never be the same or there FAMILY"S
let our judicial system work.
|
| Tacoma |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 8:21:21 PM
Whats the old saying kill them all and let God sort them out. Need to do afghanistan like Japan wipe it off the map and to hell with the sand fleas. |
| saltydog235 |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 1:39:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by skinneej
quote:
Originally posted by saltydog235
quote:
Originally posted by skinneej
Saltydog... Just curious... If he hadn't have gone back to Afghanistan and snapped here in the USA instead and murdered your wife and kids, would you have the same smypathy? Mental trauma or not, he is a danger to society and shouldn't be walking the streets waiting for his next 'episode' to happen.
You answered you own question. Brain injury, battle fatigue and PTSD along with serving in a unit that had a high suicide rate for returning soldiers. What part of shouldn't have been sent back or even dismissed from psychiatric care do you fellows not get. He was shuffled through the system and sent as a body to fill a position in a high stress envrionment. Lots of these guys aren't getting the care and help they need and are shuffled back into the system.
But hey, lets let the Afgani's string him up, tie him to a stake and stone him or just lop his head off in a PBS documentary. I wouldn't take 100 Afghani's for the service one American Soldier gives to his country and I (**() sure wouldn't give one wounded in action over to mob rule and justice.
Mark
Mako 262 Twin Yammaha F200s
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid" John Wayne
No, I did not answer my own question. I asked you if you would have the same sympathy if he murdered your family. But, you act like he should get a free pass, and should not be held accountable for his actions, just because he was a combat veteran. Also, I never suggested we turn him over to the Afghans. I said that America should make an example out of him... Now, I ask you again, what if he had never been sent back to war, and instead, snapped in the USA and murdered your wife and children. Do you still think that he should be given a free pass?
This topic is NOT about whether or not he should have been sent back to war. This question is about what should happen to him NOW that he has murdered innocent civilians...
Personally, IF he were to murder my family I'd want to flip the switch or push the plngers and watch the life drain out of him. Realistically, he would stand trial and be convicted by a jury of his peers if civillian or courts martial if still military, BTW there are cases of returning soldiers who kill theri spouses and kids already. Many of them asked for help in coping only to be turned away by the very people that broke them.
I don't think you have read my posts on the topic clearly. Never once have I advocated that he should be set free or a blind eye turned. However, I don't think he should be made and "example of" by being found guilty before ever being tried and sentenced to execution in the court of public opinion. We only know what we hear news reports of. Now its being reported that Afghani Tribal leaders say he didn't act alone. So now is it a rogue individual that got drunk and managed to massacre 14 people while intoxicate, was it a rogue unit or is it a conspiracy set up by the Taliban or other faction. The simple fact it none of us know what happened over there only what we are being led to believe.
I know, maybe George Patton rose up out of his grave, ***** slapped the guy, told him he was a coward for being mentally unstable and sent him back to the front lines.
Mark
Mako 262 Twin Yammaha F200s
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid" John Wayne
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| JimIslander |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 1:09:16 PM
What does this soldier deserve for HIS actions? A mental evaluation and a trial. Until that happens, I will reserve final judgement. If he was sane, he is one F-ed up, putrid, POS who deserves the death penalty. If was insane, he is blameless.
Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pungo 120 |
| skinneej |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 1:02:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by saltydog235
quote:
Originally posted by skinneej
Saltydog... Just curious... If he hadn't have gone back to Afghanistan and snapped here in the USA instead and murdered your wife and kids, would you have the same smypathy? Mental trauma or not, he is a danger to society and shouldn't be walking the streets waiting for his next 'episode' to happen.
You answered you own question. Brain injury, battle fatigue and PTSD along with serving in a unit that had a high suicide rate for returning soldiers. What part of shouldn't have been sent back or even dismissed from psychiatric care do you fellows not get. He was shuffled through the system and sent as a body to fill a position in a high stress envrionment. Lots of these guys aren't getting the care and help they need and are shuffled back into the system.
But hey, lets let the Afgani's string him up, tie him to a stake and stone him or just lop his head off in a PBS documentary. I wouldn't take 100 Afghani's for the service one American Soldier gives to his country and I (**() sure wouldn't give one wounded in action over to mob rule and justice.
Mark
Mako 262 Twin Yammaha F200s
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid" John Wayne
No, I did not answer my own question. I asked you if you would have the same sympathy if he murdered your family. But, you act like he should get a free pass, and should not be held accountable for his actions, just because he was a combat veteran. Also, I never suggested we turn him over to the Afghans. I said that America should make an example out of him... Now, I ask you again, what if he had never been sent back to war, and instead, snapped in the USA and murdered your wife and children. Do you still think that he should be given a free pass?
This topic is NOT about whether or not he should have been sent back to war. This question is about what should happen to him NOW that he has murdered innocent civilians... |
| Worm Wrangler |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 12:56:42 PM
You cannot spell Slaughter without Laughter...
With that said, I think he dicked up and I think America is going to pay for it because we are the nice guys. **** the fact that those same women and kids could have been the ones watching terrorists dig and hide IEDs and smiled as the troops drove into them. No one knows his mindset, know one knows why he did it. I have seen both sides of the war, the fighting, the bombing, etc. And then humanitarian etc. I have been in vehicles when the kids throw rocks if you dont throw them a "biscut" and I have seen little kids hug the Marines I was with.
I think the govt needs to limit how many times someone can go over there... This is a prime example of why.
It is screwed up what he did, but we should not play into THEIR politics to make a point. He is a soldier, he served the country, and he snapped, plain and simple. He defended the freedoms of you and I, and maybe in his mind, he was doing what he needed to keep doing that.
________________________________________________________________________
8" Dhingy
When I quit this site, can you retire my name? |
| saltydog235 |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 12:52:02 PM
Look, I think some of you have totally missed what I'm getting at. I'm not advocating giving the guy a medal nor more ammo and weapons. What he did was heinous and wrong in every way. He should and will stand trial. If he is found guilty of war crimes and was of sound mind and reasoning, then the maximum penalty of the law should be levied against him. If he is found to be of unstable mental capacity from his injury before he was sent, during his acts and after being imprisoned, then its as much the Goverments fault for sending him back into combat as it is his. I fully recognize that many soldiers serve many tours with distinction and never have issues like this. However, there are hundreds and thousands returning to this country that cannot get the help they need to deal with the issues that have wrecked them mentally and physically. Hundreds of young lives are lost due to suicide because no one listened or was willing to help. Thousands more don't get treatment for conditions from the VA because they are deemed ineligible and get into trouble when they come back home. Some of it does fall to individual responsibility but there is just as much culpability for the Government that sent them into these wars/conflicts to offer benefits and services to help them cope with returning to normal life.
Honestly, should we give up and all those soldier suffering from PTSD or other mental conditions. Maybe we should send them all to a camp like Gitmo when they're all used up. Or would some of you prefer that we take men and women who have sacrificed their lives for the country but just happen to be breathing by just executing them as write offs. If you haven't had the opportunity, take aminute or two and speak to someone involved with the Wounded Warrior Project, it'll open your eyes to not only the physically wounded but also the psychologically wounded.
Mark
Mako 262 Twin Yammaha F200s
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid" John Wayne
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| joeboo |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 12:33:36 PM
Salty I totally agree with your last post. With our technology, we shouldn't have risked our young soldiers lives, bombed them and their poppy fields into oblivion. We have the technology to fight from a distance, let's use it. Then get back to repairing our country.
I just can not fathom a person randomly with no orders murdering women and children. He is mentally ruined and forfeited any rights to his being. Now a soldier pissing on a war prisoner, cool. A civilian killed in crossfire, so be it. A house destroyed in a bombing raid, o.k. A family housing a know terrorist blown to bits, war is hell.
to get called a treasonous bastard is laughable when we have some that are sympathetic to Child Murderers.
working hard and playing harder |
| saltydog235 |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 12:24:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mhebbard
"Sorry bro, I'm more of a kill them all, win by attrition and total destruction sort."
Maybe we can get you and this guy a 2-for-1 deal on mental evaluations.
The last war the US definatively won was done by attrition. Ask the Japanese and Germans if it worked. If my history serves me right they both sued for peace.
Then again, Afghanistan has never been conquered by any invading army,
Mark
Mako 262 Twin Yammaha F200s
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid" John Wayne
|
| mhebbard |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 12:20:29 PM
"Sorry bro, I'm more of a kill them all, win by attrition and total destruction sort."
Maybe we can get you and this guy a 2-for-1 deal on mental evaluations. |
| hhi angler |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 11:02:14 AM
Salty you are spot on. History has shown the Afghan crapper hole is a no mans land made up of tribal Muslim nut jobs who value a book over people. Nothing to be gained, the President is a criminal who just wants our money and the various criminal organizations want there piece of the drug pie. |
| saltydog235 |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 10:31:02 AM
Obama and his ilk are the ones pushing to punish our soldiers, seeking them out to be made examples of and turning their backs on them. The Obama ilk give more rights and creedance to the Taliban, AQ and terrorists than they do Americans. Obama and his ilk are responsible for the deaths of many Americans lately for changing the rules of engagement and for the upcoming violence stemming from all this BS. Sorry bro, I'm more of a kill them all, win by attrition and total destruction sort. If the Army/Marines want to send war weary unstable troops back into a combat zone then they should realize that schitt like this will happen, especially in light of those goat herders shooting Americans in the back of the head over burning some desecrated books.
Look, if the US is getting out, then get the F out. If they are staying, then go all out. But ***** footing around winning the hearts and minds of people so primative with absolutely zero goods, services and assets to offer the US is rediculous. Its doesn't matter when we leave, 6 months after we are gone it will have reverted back to its old ways.
Mark
Mako 262 Twin Yammaha F200s
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid" John Wayne
|
| joeboo |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 09:42:00 AM
quote:
[
I wouldn't take 100 Afghani's for the service one American Soldier gives to his country and I (**() sure wouldn't give one wounded in action over to mob rule and justice.
I agree with you, but this murderer gave up being an American Soldier the minute he went rouge. What ever led up to it, I don't care, he MURDERED WOMEN AND CHILDREN. How can you defend that? You need to get back on Obama's root and nurse some more.
working hard and playing harder |
| alabamafan2 |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:27:35 AM
Until all the facts of this case are out I won't pretend to be able to judge what his punishment should be. But I will say that his actions, regardless of their motive, were selfish as hell and the cost will likely be measured in the lives of his fellow soldiers. |
| saltydog235 |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:09:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by skinneej
Saltydog... Just curious... If he hadn't have gone back to Afghanistan and snapped here in the USA instead and murdered your wife and kids, would you have the same smypathy? Mental trauma or not, he is a danger to society and shouldn't be walking the streets waiting for his next 'episode' to happen.
You answered you own question. Brain injury, battle fatigue and PTSD along with serving in a unit that had a high suicide rate for returning soldiers. What part of shouldn't have been sent back or even dismissed from psychiatric care do you fellows not get. He was shuffled through the system and sent as a body to fill a position in a high stress envrionment. Lots of these guys aren't getting the care and help they need and are shuffled back into the system.
But hey, lets let the Afgani's string him up, tie him to a stake and stone him or just lop his head off in a PBS documentary. I wouldn't take 100 Afghani's for the service one American Soldier gives to his country and I (**() sure wouldn't give one wounded in action over to mob rule and justice.
Mark
Mako 262 Twin Yammaha F200s
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid" John Wayne
|
| joeboo |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 07:27:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tacoma
The way I see it he took out future terrorists. He should get a medal.
The weak minded idiot needs a ballistic tipped medal to his temple. People want to defend a child murderer because he served too much time in combat? Some people have no clue what being in the military is about. No one wants to go to war, but that's what it is for. I still remember people saying "I only joined to get an education", as we were being deployed.
So your mind set is every Afghan is a future terrorist? There are some really good hard working people outside of your little world.
All the good we have been doing to mend some of the hatred and this piece of crap goes out and seeks women and children to murder and you think he deserves a metal? unbelievable. I bet you probable agree with the rouge soldiers that raped 8 year old girls in Vietnam.
working hard and playing harder |
| skinneej |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 6:23:20 PM
Saltydog... Just curious... If he hadn't have gone back to Afghanistan and snapped here in the USA instead and murdered your wife and kids, would you have the same smypathy? Mental trauma or not, he is a danger to society and shouldn't be walking the streets waiting for his next 'episode' to happen. |
| Tacoma |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 5:39:08 PM
The way I see it he took out future terrorists. He should get a medal. |
| dream on |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 4:43:45 PM
"So, every American soldier that happens to kill innocent civillians in a war zone should be tried and sentenced to death? How about civillian contractors? How about either of thsoe sitting in air conditioned offices in Las Vegas flying drones and launching missles and dropping SMART Bombs?"
This soldier did not just happen to kill women and children. He hunted them down in their homes, purposely killing them. There is a difference between this and collateral damage. Would we be sympathetic about this if he had lost it on base housing?
I think that we all support our troops. Right is right wrong is wrong.
I think that we can all agree that we need to bring them home. We have been fighting these wars for way to long and it is taking a tole on our Military.
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