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Rapchizzle
Senior Member
3684 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2012 : 02:42:53 AM
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I want a nice flats boat for the creeks around Charleston and tooting around the harbor on nice days. I don't want to come out of pocket all that money to get a slightly used boat that's not set up the way I want, or get a subpar older boat with lots of unknown issues. That being said, I've been looking at boat plans and have found these...
http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=PH16
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http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=PH18
Has anyone had any experience with these types boats before? Seen them in person? Heard any good/bad things? I understand that reviews will vary greatly from boat to boat as it's a different building them and putting them together each time but I'm looking for feedback on the design and plans themselves.
-Capt. Chris Rapchick
yella bote
no motor |
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spareparts
Senior Member
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 08:25:39 AM
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| I've been looking at those plans for a few years now, they look real good. I'd love to build the 18 and play with the hull design a little, may add a pad. Cool thing about those, you can build them to suit you. |
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 08:33:21 AM
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Yes, I build almost exclusively from Bateau plans. I've never built one of the Phantoms, but I've been on several and have 3 friends who are building them now. They are an excellent design and the plans are first class too. The PH series are somewhat complex, but not out of reach of a first time builder with a little ability.
If they are built to the plans, with the specified materials, they will last a lifetime. Jacques Mertens is one of the best designers in the business, and Bateau's customer service and support is second to none.
I've got a completed OD18 here that's 5 years old, and a FS18 under construction. You are welcome to come by, take a look at them and ask any questions. I'd be glad to help any way I can. In fact I've got a set of plans for the PH16 that I'd loan you.
Send me a PM if you'd like to get together. I'm in Clyo, GA, just across the river from SC.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats |
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 08:46:38 AM
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I was going to show you some pics of completed Phantoms, but the Bateau forum and photo server is down this morning for an upgrade.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats |
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spanishking
Senior Member
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 11:34:32 AM
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are they stitch and glue?
________________________________________________________________________
"If you had to tell someone how good you are, then you probably aren't that good"
02 Carolina Skiff 175 RG Honda 90 -
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 11:44:45 AM
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Yes, stitch and glue
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats |
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Rapchizzle
Senior Member
3684 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 1:01:35 PM
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Man, I've spent all day looking at the plans and whatnot of these boats. I may have initially been pleased with the looks of the PH18 but the more I think about it, I believe I would want something that will be a little better in some chop and I can comfortably take out farther if need be. I really like the FS17 but am pretty impressed with the OB17 and OD18 as well.
Larry- how do you like the flat bottom of the OD18? that's the only thing that's sort of shying me away from that model. I like the vee design of the FS17 and OB17 but I think the FS17 would feel a little less stable and the OB17 would be heavier and more expensive. Any insight on the matter?
-Capt. Chris Rapchick
yella bote
no motor |
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 2:39:22 PM
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Oh yeah, I've got plenty of insight on those boats As you know, all boats are trade offs and compromises. You can't build a boat that will run at a fast speed into a good chop and still float shallow and pole well in skinny waters.
I think the PH18 will do a lot better in a chop than you imagine, it's got a decent V and it's a big, wide boat with a low sheer line. It's a very good compromise, leaning towards a flats and bay boat, most people build them for that, but a lot of people build them as inshore bass boats too. This a PH18 built as a competition bass boat
The FS17 is a beautiful design and great compromise between running in a chop and running shallow. It's very popular, and can be built in 3 versions, low sheer flats style, standard sheer and high sheer. You can build it simple with tiller steering, or with a center console. It is a smaller boat than the PH18, OD18 or OB17. It's a relatively small 17 and best suited to 2 people, 3 max. Out of the boats you mention, it is the smallest, but easiest and least expensive to build, but you'd want to stay close to shore with it except on the best days.
This is a standard sheer FS17, it's a fine boat!
This is a low sheer version, built simple...
The OB17 and OB19 are more of a bay boat design, with a deeper V and higher sides than the other 2, and much more hull volume. They handle a chop nice, and are suitable for short offshore runs, but probably draw 12-15" of water and almost impossible to pole. Probably not your best choice for our waters, but you could cut down the sheer line and finish the deck as a flats boat if you like the hull shape. Several people have done that, but the hull bottom is more suitable to deeper water.
This is an OB
Got to take a break, I'll finish this shortly
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats |
Edited by - Cracker Larry on 03/09/2012 3:32:22 PM |
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 3:00:07 PM
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This is another Phantom 18, built as a flats boat..
and another....
They do make a very nice flats boat! All the folks in the above boats are friends of mine and I can put you in touch with any of them. But the best thing for you to do at this point in your decision making process is to register on the Bateau builders forum and ask your questions there. They will be answered by dozens of people who have built each of these boats, and the designer will respond also, not just myself Any questions you have on any of them will be answered by people who design them, build them and use them.
I'll follow this up with my thoughts on the OD18, dang phone keeps ringing..
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats |
Edited by - Cracker Larry on 03/09/2012 3:06:47 PM |
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 4:18:30 PM
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quote:
Larry- how do you like the flat bottom of the OD18? that's the only thing that's sort of shying me away from that model.
Like any flat bottom boat, you have to slow down when running into a steep chop, but it will handle about anything. Jacques designed the OD for the USCG, for east coast surf and inlet use. It has been extensively tested by them and me. I've run almost every inlet in Georgia and South Carolina, and many on both coasts of Florida with it, some on very ugly days. I've been in seas over 12 feet and had to wear a dive mask and snorkel to breath, but the boat does fine I've run it from Savannah to Cape Fear, NC and back, mostly offshore, and from the Keys to the Bahamas twice. At 12-15 kts she can handle anything that any sane (questionable) man would take her out in. She is wet going to weather in a sea, but she will run dry at almost wide open with a following, breaking sea, like it's on rails. It loves a big following sea
In decent weather I take it way offshore, been out 80 miles in the Atlantic and 100 in the Gulf of Mexico, but it will also float in 5" of water and run in 8 inches, so I can get up into any creek that a flats boat can. Plus it looks good I've always like the Dory lines. I'm discriminating when it comes to my boats, and I just can't bring myself to sell my OD18. It's not perfect for everything, but it does most of what I need pretty well, carries a good load, and is very economical to run. This is her...
Except it had a swim ladder upgrade since that picture
Let me know if I can be of further help.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats |
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 6:27:12 PM
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One more thing about the OD18. I'll tell ya sea story.
One night 2 summers ago, on a run from Daufuskie Island to Charleston, we got caught in a developing tropical storm. It was calm when we left Bloody Point at sunset, and set the GPS on the Charleston sea buoy, the weather report was good. 2 hours out the wind shifted to the northeast and started blowing 15-20. This ain't good, I thought, 15 miles offshore. Listened to the weather again, no change in the report, so we kept going and the wind kept increasing. We started slowing down more as the wind picked up to about 30. Listen to the weather again and they say a tropical storm was developing 50 miles SE of Charleston, winds increasing to 45 kts, gusting to 60, small craft should remain in port. Great. I was wishing I was in port. So was my wife.
It kept building and we kept slowing down until I was only making about 5 kts, still heading for Charleston. About 10 pm a Mayday call came over the radio. It was a 70' shrimp boat sinking off Edisto Island. I punched his numbers in my GPS and was only 10 miles away, but it was 10 miles straight to windward and I couldn't do anything to help him. The CG sent a chopper to them. Then another Mayday came over the radio, a big sportfishing boat had swamped and was sinking. I punched in his numbers and saw he was right off Charleston Harbor. Couldn't help him either. Starting to worry about ourselves a little bit. By now the seas seemed at least 12-15 feet, and in the dark I couldn't see anything but breaking water. Our headway stopped to almost nothing, couldn't see, couldn't breathe and every wave was breaking over the boat. The only thing I could do was to turn around and run with the sea, so I did. We had 2 choices to get back in, St. Helena, or Port Royal and I chose Port Royal because I know it better and it's better marked, plus the sea allowed us to run in that direction best. I set the GPS on the Port Royal Buoy about 18 miles away. We were holding our own just fine with the big following sea, good enough to dry my eyes, finally light a cigarette and make a drink Then it started pouring rain.
With these big boats sinking around me I thought it might be a good idea to let somebody know exactly where we were, just in case we sunk too. My radio has DSC and is interfaced to the GPS. I called USCG Tybee and told them our situation and intentions, and set up a 10 minute radio safety check with them. They couldn't believe I was out there in a 18' open boat, they were more concerned about us than I was.
As luck would have it, there was a outgoing tide when we finally made the sound, and I only thought the ocean was rough. Dangit man! I was sure glad we were in a boat that I built myself! We never saw a buoy or channel mark coming in the sound or heading up the Beaufort River, between the waves and spray and rain I couldn't see further than the chart plotter. We took a real beating that night. God bless the CG, they kept up with us by radio every 10 minutes, all the way in to Beaufort Municipal Marina. It was a long, wet night, but we had no damage except a few minor stress cracks. I never thought we were going to lose it, but don't ever want to repeat it either!! Sea trials complete, it passed, we're good
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats |
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Rapchizzle
Senior Member
3684 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 7:31:45 PM
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Larry, I've been on the site all day long looking at plans, reading post after post about the pros and cons, looked through a few build threads and am stuck between the OB17 and the OD18. The ONLY thing keeping me hesitant about the OD18 is the flat bottom. Then again, I'm hesitant about the OB17 because of the higher sheer (which I imagine can be cut down a bit) and the slightly higher cost of materials even though over the course of the life of the boat, that cost differential is minute.
I saw there's a Meet and Greet in Marathon in June and it just o happens I'm about 30 minutes down the road. I will have to come by to see the boats, talk to the builders about their boats an ideas and delve into Jacques's head. If I'm lucky, maybe you'll let me take a ride in the No Excuse.
-Capt. Chris Rapchick
yella bote
no motor |
Edited by - Rapchizzle on 03/09/2012 10:01:24 PM |
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2012 : 06:45:32 AM
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Chris, I'll take you out in No Excuse anytime you want. And like I said, you are welcome to come by here anytime also. Yeah, I'll be at the meet in Marathon, I'm one of the organizers. Afterwards we are spending 10 days on Cudjoe and plan to fish every day. Can't wait!
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats |
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allicomarine
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2012 : 09:43:02 AM
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If you need help constructing one of your plans, I'd be glad to help. Checkout my website for my past experience building boats.
happy boating!
Bobby Bentz
Allico Marine
843-718-9801
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RussB
Senior Member
4202 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2012 : 11:50:27 AM
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"I've been in seas over 12 feet , I take it way offshore, been out 80 miles in the Atlantic and 100 in the Gulf of Mexico"
All this was in a 18ft FLAT bottomed boat?? Wasn't sure if was reading it right or if were talking about another boat?
Russ B.
www.joinrfa.org
God is great, Beer is good, People are crazy
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Wolakrab
Senior Member
1655 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2012 : 4:45:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RussB
"I've been in seas over 12 feet , I take it way offshore, been out 80 miles in the Atlantic and 100 in the Gulf of Mexico"
All this was in a 18ft FLAT bottomed boat?? Wasn't sure if was reading it right or if were talking about another boat?
That's the way I read it...if true, that's plain nuts...
"Never argue with an idiot....he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
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Ferreel
Senior Member
178 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 07:13:49 AM
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| Check out enviboatworks Good looking boats and it looks like they have different packages depending on your skill |
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 09:19:38 AM
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quote:
"I've been in seas over 12 feet , I take it way offshore, been out 80 miles in the Atlantic and 100 in the Gulf of Mexico"
All this was in a 18ft FLAT bottomed boat?? Wasn't sure if was reading it right or if were talking about another boat?
It's true, and it's not nuts. The boat is designed and built for it  I'd rather be in that one than 95% of the production boats on the market.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats |
Edited by - Cracker Larry on 03/14/2012 09:43:40 AM |
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opossum
Senior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 11:37:48 PM
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Wow. I just looked at the Envi Boatwork plans for the 17 flats. Amazing.
Then I looked at a series of pics from a build project- No way a mere mortal could put that together in a reasonable amount of time. Perhaps when I'm retired...
Click on the 17 project pics.
http://www.xceleratorboatworks.com/projects.html |
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Boatbuilders- look here
