| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
GIBS0821
Intermediate Member
96 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2012 : 01:22:18 AM
|
Noticed the steering response was a little delayed while out cruising and checked the reservoir. Had some things come up and didn't get around to topping it off til a few weeks later, that's when I noticed a puddle of fluid in the boat under the cylinder.
The model number is HC4600. Can't tell which side it's leaking from...apparently this cylinder requires a port and starboard seal kit...sold separately. (Not cheap either) I'm thinking I should just go ahead and buy both kits, do it right while I got it off the boat.
Anybody else have leakage issues with their BayStar cylinders? Also, when I'm ready to bleed the system, do I loosen the nut on the bleeder valve outlined in the red circle?
1970 19' Mako
Twin 55 Yamahas |
|
|
Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1452 Posts |
|
|
chris V
Senior Member
7010 Posts |
|
|
GIBS0821
Intermediate Member
96 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 05:48:48 AM
|
Thanks for the info Larry!
Okay, as I'm reading the purge directions on page 21, in step 2 of the procedure it looks like they made an error in the directions. The diagram shows to turn the helm clockwise, while the directions say turn counter clockwise...which is it? I think it's supposed to be as the diagram indicates, not the script.
Chris, do you guys sell the Seastar fluid?
1970 19' Mako
Twin 55 Yamahas |
 |
|
|
wolfie
Senior Member
221 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 07:56:03 AM
|
I have a similar unit that oozes oil slowly but steadily. I've just been topping it off occasionally, but I know it's going to need a real fix eventually. how much do the seal kits go for?
--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150 |
|
|
|
GIBS0821
Intermediate Member
96 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 10:36:14 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by wolfie
I have a similar unit that oozes oil slowly but steadily. I've just been topping it off occasionally, but I know it's going to need a real fix eventually. how much do the seal kits go for?
--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150
Cheapest I've seen them was on www.foreandaftmarine.com for $65 per side.
1970 19' Mako
Twin 55 Yamahas |
|
|
|
spareparts
Senior Member
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 1:31:28 PM
|
| I don't like the baystar, before you start dumping a lot of money in it, check into a sea star system or Uflex |
|
|
|
chris V
Senior Member
7010 Posts |
|
|
wolfie
Senior Member
221 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 6:54:46 PM
|
 $130+ that's a lot for some seal kits!
but looks like a new baystar kit runs about $500-600 for a complete kit (helm, hoses, cylinder), and seastar more like $800-900.
maybe I'll just live with the leaks until it becomes an operational problem instead of an annoying oily splashwell problem and then upgrade, if I haven't upgraded the boat by then. What is the likelyhood that this weepage will turn into a sudden catastrophic failure and loss of steering while underway?
--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150 |
|
|
|
chris V
Senior Member
7010 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 7:04:31 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by wolfie
$130+ that's a lot for some seal kits!
but looks like a new baystar kit runs about $500-600 for a complete kit (helm, hoses, cylinder), and seastar more like $800-900.
maybe I'll just live with the leaks until it becomes an operational problem instead of an annoying oily splashwell problem and then upgrade, if I haven't upgraded the boat by then. What is the likelyhood that this weepage will turn into a sudden catastrophic failure and loss of steering while underway?
--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150
VERY
www.teamcharlestonmarine.com
www.joinrfa.org |
|
|
|
RussB
Senior Member
4202 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 8:07:40 PM
|
I speak from experience here, lost a seal running out the Stono Inlet at dark thirty one morning and lost all steering, NOT FUN WHATSOEVER!! Fortunantly was in the middle of channel and not crossing breakers and was able to stop and anchor and replace the seal with a spare on boar, refill and then proceed to bleed the system which can be a pain in the butt to do even with the proper tools. You can get a hose barb fitting that screws into the helm reseivor and hook it to a bottle of fluid hanging above the helm so one dosen't have to constally keep adding fluid while bleeding, have to spin wheen both ways quite a few times to totally eliminate all the air from system.
Russ B.
www.joinrfa.org
God is great, Beer is good, People are crazy
|
|
|
|
wolfie
Senior Member
221 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2012 : 10:15:26 PM
|
well, I'll be ordering some seal kits then... thanks for the wisdom!
Like spareparts said I've definitely heard better things about the Seastar than the Baystar, but that upgrade isn't in the budget right now. Safety is though, even if it cuts into my gas money!
--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150 |
|
|
|
wolfie
Senior Member
221 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 12:11:37 AM
|
sorry to hijack this thread, but after looking at my setup I learned some interesting things. Maybe someone out there can verify that I'm not totally out to lunch on this.
I have the "compact" Baystar cylinder HC4645H, which apparently just needs one complete seal kit, P/N HP4600, around $75.
Wanted to replace the seals in the helm as well, since I have also noticed some weepage around the shaft. After digging around in the console, I confirmed that I have an Ultraflex UP20F helm. I finally found the Ultraflex P/N 40875 V Shaft Seal kit on Ultraflex's website, but could not find one for sale anywhere. After much navigating between Ultraflex Group's several sites, found a cross-reference page (http://uflexusa.ultraflexgroup.com/articoli.asp?sart=222&art=561) that lists Uflex UP20F helms as Teleflex HH5270 (one of the Seastar helms), which uses Teleflex P/N HS5176 seal kit, about $40 and readily available.
So apparently "Teleflex" helms (and cylinders) are really made by Uflex (the US component of Ultraflex Group), or vice versa? Seems like I have an odd combo with the Baystar cylinder and Uflex-branded Seastar helm.
And also, apparently Teleflex has a medical supply branch. Weird.
--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150 |
|
|
|
rigger1
Senior Member
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 08:05:12 AM
|
| For fluid, you can use ATF and save a bunch on the cost. It is a tad thicker than Sea Star fluid but unless it is really cold out and you jump from one perfect stearing system to the other, (one with ATF and one with Sea Star fluid) you will not be able to tell the difference. |
|
|
|
spareparts
Senior Member
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 09:29:25 AM
|
| the uflex and bay star are two different units, I wouldn't trust a parts cross over to get a seal kit. Look at your bay star helm, does it have a composite housing(plastic)? If it does, ditch the whole system and replace with a Uflex or sea star |
|
|
|
jeffro22
Senior Member
296 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 11:04:06 AM
|
seastar and baystar are both made by teleflex. Although, they are not interchangable.
uflex is completely different.
before you spend money on a seal kit, i would make sure the rod that goes through the center of the cylinder is OK. they sometimes will lose the plating do to electrolysis. if this happens, the seal kit will not fix your problem. same if the the rod has been gouged or scratched badly |
|
|
|
GIBS0821
Intermediate Member
96 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2012 : 2:08:04 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by rigger1
For fluid, you can use ATF and save a bunch on the cost. It is a tad thicker than Sea Star fluid but unless it is really cold out and you jump from one perfect stearing system to the other, (one with ATF and one with Sea Star fluid) you will not be able to tell the difference.
The directions in the manual say to only use other types of fluid in emergency situations and then to flush when possible and re-fill with appropriate fluid. Do you have this in your system now? How are your seals affected by it? I'm no chemist and have no idea how different fluids react to rubber seals so I'm inclined to follow mfg specifications to guarantee the longevity of my system. Found this info on the bassbarn.com
http://www.thebassbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262131
1970 19' Mako
Twin 55 Yamahas |
|
|
|
wolfie
Senior Member
221 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2012 : 9:53:21 PM
|
apparently the original Baystar helm in my system has already been replaced with an Ultraflex. Problem now is that the helm leaks oil around the shaft, and Uflex seal kits do not exist that I can find. I pulled the shaft seal today, it seems to be a pretty standard low pressure radial oil seal, "SC" type, 3/4" shaft, 1-1/16" bore (OD). I'm going to see if a Baystar seal fits, if not I'll give Ultraflex a call, if they can't sell me one I'll try some industrial/hydraulic suppliers to see if I can source a replacement.
As far as fluid, I doubt the seals are really going to care - most of the materials used in modern seals should be fine with ATF, its probably got more to do with other characteristics of the fluid (viscosity, density, additives etc) but you're always safer using what the manufacturer recommends. I haven't checked for myself, but according to the forum linked above any MILSPEC H5606 fluid should be fine - but I don't know if it's worth my time trying to chase something down to save a few bucks when the seastar stuff is sitting on any number of shelves within a few minutes of my house...
--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150 |
|
|
|
boatpoor
Senior Member
770 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 10:23:45 AM
|
| Take unit out and take it with you to a industrial hydrolic shop and they will have all the parts you need! Look in the Yellow pages! In the upstate I use the people that do all my cylenders for my heavy equiptment (Cline Co. on Buncome road in Greenville)They might have a branch in Ctown! They also carry the hose and fluid! |
|
|
|
chris V
Senior Member
7010 Posts |
|
|
wolfie
Senior Member
221 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 11:19:56 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by chris V
if you have the seal out, we stock the seals for the helm
they are less than $10 i believe
www.teamcharlestonmarine.com
www.joinrfa.org
awesome, I'll be in tommorow! Duh, should have thought of checking somewhere that actually works on boats first...
--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150 |
|
|
|
rigger1
Senior Member
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 9:56:48 PM
|
ATF is fine to use in your steering system. I have used both for years and niether one seems to be better than the other. The guys at Teleflex were then ones that told me I could use ATF with out any problems. Like I said before, ATF is just a little thicker but you wont notice it. Other than that, the big up-side to the ATF is you can get it anywhere and the price is so much better.
Look at the rod really good and check for pitting. If the rod is pitted, it is just going to leak again. You can smooth it out some with some really fine wet sand paper but it wont fix anything. It will only get you a little more time out of new set of seals.
And to answer your question, on the last boat I owned, I ran ATF in the steering for years. No problems with it. |
Edited by - rigger1 on 03/27/2012 9:58:43 PM |
|
|
|
Beaufort Boy
Senior Member
490 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 1:28:05 PM
|
I replaced the entire cylinder last winter. Purchased a new one off ebay for maybe $250. Seals were ~$80, shaft had small scratches in it, and I didn't want to have to do it all again in the middle of the busy season.
Sea Hunt 207CC,Yam 150
www.abfishcharters.com |
|
|
|
wolfie
Senior Member
221 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 4:04:35 PM
|
shaft looks good, so I just went with the cylinder seal kit for now.
The helm seal, on the other hand, has been quite the adventure. So far I haven't found anyone that has or can get replacement parts for Uflex helms. Uflex will not sell them to me directly (or anyone else, apparently). Several local industrial suppliers do not have them. Even though the Uflex helm uses a "standard" 3/4" tapered shaft, the seal is actually a actually a metric size, 19x26x7 mm. Found some online, should be here in day or two. If anybody has a leaking Ultraflex helm and needs one, I have 3 extra - the site had free shipping for orders over $10 so I ordered 4 rather than pay $5 shipping for one $3 part.
I'll post results when all the seals have been replaced.
--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Baystar Steering
