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soup
Senior Member
2740 Posts |
 Posted - 05/25/2012 : 08:51:51 AM
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Or, better yet, Senator Truthbegone.
Elizabeth Warren is running for Senate in the great liberal state of Massachusetts. Hihgly regarded as a Professor of Law at Harvard and advisor to Bambi.
She claims to be 1/32 Native American (Cherokee) from Oklahoma. Harvard appears to have reaped the benefits of listing her as a female of color (double points for diversity).
From 1978-1986 I was a member of the Admissions Committee for a public state Medical School in the great Midwest. As such, I would review communally ~800 appications a year--roughly 90% from instate students.
Unknown to most, back in those days the Federal Government had a system of capitation grants which were awarded to medical schools that admitted members of certain minorities, of which Native American was one. I would personally interview ~75 applicants a year. Each year I would interview about 5-7 Elizabeth Warrens. Tall, white (some looked like they had fallen into a vat of whiteout), blond females. The state legislature, which would receive the money, was quite lax about proof of tribal affiliation. Thus, word of mouth communication from the applicant was sufficient criterion as to proof of tribal affiliation.
Generally accepting insufficient past academic performance as "good enough" the committee would admit about 15 minority students a yr(~10% of the class size). Four or five of these would be the Elizabeth Warren of the year. As a Professor teaching portions of Medical Physiology to first-year medical students, I can attest that the academic performance of the Elizabeth Warrens in one of the key courses in medical curriculum SUCKED.
For umpteen number of reasons I think Warren has committed despicable acts of dishonesty. I do not understand how anyone in MA could vote for her for Senate. What is even more amazing is that Harvard continues to use her as a "diversity" point. |
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gotchacovered
Prolific Poster
18376 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 10:00:11 AM
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1/32 means that ONE of her great, GReat, GREAT grandparents was a Cherokee. Who doesn't have a drop of minority blood in them somewhere down the line? About half the people I grew up with seemed to have some family legend that "Mammy is part Cherokee, you know", including mine. We always joked about filing for minority status. Looks like some with less moral integrity took advantage of what we only joked about. Oh, well, maybe some Ivy Leaguers will go down to the SPCA and adopt some Heinz 57's, breed them, and sell the puppies as "german shepherds" for $500 each. Sounds about the same.
Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862 |
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hhi angler
Senior Member
2159 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 10:20:13 AM
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| Actually it mean nothing this low life is making unsubstantiated statements just like her pal the skinny socialist about his record. She obtained huge grants and preferential treatment. When questioned about this lie she stated she was lonely. And she said one of her relatives had high cheek bones what a crock of crap. |
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JimIslander
Senior Member
1804 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 10:51:19 AM
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What is your point? Are you faulting her for utilizing available, legal means to help her get into school, or are you against the policy?
1. Did she lie when she said she was 1/32 Native American?
2. How were her grades in school?
If she was truthful and did her part to get good grades, she hasn't exactly committed an moral or ethical wrong. The policy, I agree, is pure crap.
Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115
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Pungo 120 |
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hhi angler
Senior Member
2159 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 11:15:39 AM
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| I guess a law professor has the privilege of not being exactly morally or ethically wrong. She stated she had relatives tell her that a member of the family might have been a Indian/Native American. Nothing about this scam is truthful. What she needed to do was to join E Harmony to find another lonely liar. |
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soup
Senior Member
2740 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 12:24:00 PM
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Mr. Islander.
Policy--call it "affirmative action" or whatever you wish. I think it was(is) an abominable policy. History has shown that the policy provided very little help to the selected minorities. Basically, it allows people to be advanced to levels well above their intellectual capacity in which case they drop out, quit, and are left with a large number of other problems. It has been government-induced violation of the "The Peter Principle."
The Real Elizabeth Warren--I have no idea whether she is telling the truth but so far no one has not produced any authenicated proof. In any case, if she is telling the truth about the lineage she did not have the life background common to those growing up on a reservation. If so, she used an "available,legal means" to perpetuate a fraud. If she is prevaricating then she is committing a bigger fraud (if possible).
My Elizabeth Warrens-=-The academic performance of those who were admitted clearly in 100% of the cases which I followed indicated they were not intellectually fit for medical school. Because medical schools at that time were adopting the "no fail policy" they all were allowed to continue school, found a 5th rate residency program, and entered the profession. Now, you tell me how that benefits anyone.
My experience provided a good opportunity to witness the collusion between governemnts and one type of professional school, in which the government ran a social engineering program and the schools collected the cash. If you look at higher education now you will find that this government-academia cabal has boomed reulting in colossal increases in college fees and almost a trillion dollars in government-backed student loans. It will be interesting to see what happens when the bust comes.
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Fred67
Senior Member
3591 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 2:11:52 PM
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I'm 1/16 Cherokee, 1/2 Irish, and 7/16 other, but I don't take or add that to being 100% American.
Yep 100% American. If we could break that barrier then we would all have a good start on race relations. We the People....
The minority trump card has been played, let's get it out of circulation and base a man/woman on their abilities.
< Evil is simply the absence of God > |
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JimIslander
Senior Member
1804 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 2:57:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by soup
Mr. Islander.
Policy--call it "affirmative action" or whatever you wish. I think it was(is) an abominable policy. History has shown that the policy provided very little help to the selected minorities. Basically, it allows people to be advanced to levels well above their intellectual capacity in which case they drop out, quit, and are left with a large number of other problems. It has been government-induced violation of the "The Peter Principle."
The Real Elizabeth Warren--I have no idea whether she is telling the truth but so far no one has not produced any authenicated proof. In any case, if she is telling the truth about the lineage she did not have the life background common to those growing up on a reservation. If so, she used an "available,legal means" to perpetuate a fraud. If she is prevaricating then she is committing a bigger fraud (if possible).
My Elizabeth Warrens-=-The academic performance of those who were admitted clearly in 100% of the cases which I followed indicated they were not intellectually fit for medical school. Because medical schools at that time were adopting the "no fail policy" they all were allowed to continue school, found a 5th rate residency program, and entered the profession. Now, you tell me how that benefits anyone.
My experience provided a good opportunity to witness the collusion between governemnts and one type of professional school, in which the government ran a social engineering program and the schools collected the cash. If you look at higher education now you will find that this government-academia cabal has boomed reulting in colossal increases in college fees and almost a trillion dollars in government-backed student loans. It will be interesting to see what happens when the bust comes.
Mr. Campbell (May I just call you Gary or Soup? You can call me Jim or Mike),
First, I'm not questioning your motives. I am questioning your point, which wasn't fully fleshed out. Those who know me know I am very conservative in my voting and hate unethical people, especially in politics. So I'm not going against you here. I'm just trying to clarify your points. Hopefully the filter of the net won't change the tone of my post too much.
I agree that the policy is no longer necessary, although that is just my opinion. I havent conducted or read any research on whether or not the current program helps our people and our nation. But I do feel we are all Americans. We have equal voting rights for all people, and discrimination is an offense that can be adjudicated. So it seems these programs might be outdated.
However, using the policy if you actually qualify is perfectly ethical. Some would choose not to, but I don't see it as unethical. If you DON'T qualify and know it, then you obviously are an unethical person (liar).
FRAUD is a pretty big charge. There is no requirement to have been brought up on a reservation or crawled across the Rio Grande or been interned during WWII to use most available minority program incentives. So if she is telling the truth, she has NOT perpetuating a fraud, unless the program required specifically that she be raised on the reservation or had a certain percentage point of Native American blood. Again, I'm not downplaying how egregious it would be if she knowingly claimed Native American minority status and knew this to be false.
Your "Elizabeth Warrens" in medical school are at best tangentially relevant to this discussion. The performance of your "Elizabeth Warrens" says nothing about whether or not minority incentive programs in colleges work or not. They have no bearing on her performance and say nothing about whether or not students who attend UPENN and Harvard Law benefit from their use of minority programs. That's why I asked about her performance, and whether or not you were commenting on it. I support using an opponent's weaknesses against them. But using unsubstantiated or straw man arguments aren't very effective. The opposing side can refute weak arguments, and human psychology tends to infer that all arguments are invalid. The only important point here is whether or not she lied about her heritage.
Student debt is certainly a problem, but hardly caused by minority programs. Certainly they contribute, but MOST students use some form of financial aid, and there are fewer minority student in college.
Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115
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Pungo 120 |
Edited by - JimIslander on 05/25/2012 2:59:53 PM |
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gotchacovered
Prolific Poster
18376 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 3:40:01 PM
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I think the point is that minority programs are intended to help people who have a disadvantage that is due to their obviously differences from the majority. She is basically a WASP with a freckle. Using that freckle to ride the program as a "woman of color", when she is really just like the average person in the majority, is an abuse of the intent and the program. We all have 1/x faction of some minority in us, but we don't all get to take advantage of minority programs.
Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862 |
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soup
Senior Member
2740 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 4:23:54 PM
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Jim. you may call me anything but Sue. Rest assured that the internet did not flavor my interpretation of your comments in any way.
The real Elizabeth Warren. I have no clue as to her performance in academia or government service. Actually, I consider any (even a great one) performance to be irrelevant. As I read your post, we agree that if she knowingly perpetuated a falsehood, then she has been acting disgracefully, and, in my opinion, fraudently. If she is truly 1/32 Cherokee but suffered no disadvantage by being so and initially used that issue as conduit and is continuing to do so, then I consider her a fraud. To date to my knowledge, she has provided no authenticated evidence that her claim is true.
My Elizabeth Warrens. I didn't mean for them to be straw women. I simply was trying to relate a story which continued to cause me problems throuhout my academic career. Although I favor some programs designed to help "oppressed" members of our population, I rely heavily on the writings of Thomas Sowell and Walter E. Williams on the overall effects of some of them on the black community and extend those to other demographics.
You are correct. The tremendous increase in government-backed student loans and the cost of academia is not directly related to minority programs. It is the result of active collusion between the government and academia.
Please continue, I'm enjoying it. |
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JimIslander
Senior Member
1804 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 7:28:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by soup
Jim. you may call me anything but Sue. Rest assured that the internet did not flavor my interpretation of your comments in any way.
The real Elizabeth Warren. I have no clue as to her performance in academia or government service. Actually, I consider any (even a great one) performance to be irrelevant. As I read your post, we agree that if she knowingly perpetuated a falsehood, then she has been acting disgracefully, and, in my opinion, fraudently. If she is truly 1/32 Cherokee but suffered no disadvantage by being so and initially used that issue as conduit and is continuing to do so, then I consider her a fraud. To date to my knowledge, she has provided no authenticated evidence that her claim is true.
My Elizabeth Warrens. I didn't mean for them to be straw women. I simply was trying to relate a story which continued to cause me problems throuhout my academic career. Although I favor some programs designed to help "oppressed" members of our population, I rely heavily on the writings of Thomas Sowell and Walter E. Williams on the overall effects of some of them on the black community and extend those to other demographics.
You are correct. The tremendous increase in government-backed student loans and the cost of academia is not directly related to minority programs. It is the result of active collusion between the government and academia.
Please continue, I'm enjoying it.
I, too, am a fan of the great Walter! And Gotcha also does make a point (probably your point too) that it can be considered disingenuous to claim disadvantaged status based on minute amounts of "minority' blood. But I don't fully agree with that point. Disadvantage often travels over many generations. So it is not prima facie farcical to claim disadvantage even if you are a lily white male with good teeth, great hair, and a beautiful wife. We see right here in Charleston the advantages of past privilege, and the disadvantage of past disenfranchisement. Having said that, I have not looked into EW's background enough to judge her case.
And I actually still lean more toward cheesy than unethical to use what is available in the system to your advantage as long as you aren't breaking the rules. YOU paid for it, or will pay for it. All who use it have the same right to it based on the actual rules, not on intent. As we become more homogenized and accepting, and as the need decreases for these programs, people "gaming" the system will hopefully cause people to rise up and abolish these programs. Gaming the system in this case, while not equivalent, approaches the ethos of taking every single loophole available to pay lower taxes. I absolutely pay every red cent I am obliged to pay, but I also take every available tax break. Of course the line between cheesy and unethical is often a matter of degree.
Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115
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Pungo 120 |
Edited by - JimIslander on 05/25/2012 7:30:20 PM |
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gotchacovered
Prolific Poster
18376 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 8:32:26 PM
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"I, too, am a fan of the great Walter! And Gotcha also does make a point (probably your point too) that it can be considered disingenuous to claim disadvantaged status based on minute amounts of "minority' blood. But I don't fully agree with that point. Disadvantage often travels over many generations. So it is not prima facie farcical to claim disadvantage even if you are a lily white male with good teeth, great hair, and a beautiful wife. We see right here in Charleston the advantages of past privilege, and the disadvantage of past disenfranchisement. Having said that, I have not looked into EW's background enough to judge her case."
Mike, I would agree with you on that, but we're talking ONE great, great, great grandparent, and the chick was a Harvard student. LOL. Did that one very distance ancestor really "disadvantage" her enough to claim minority perks based on a 1/32 genotype? Come on, man. I seriouly doubt it. One of my close friends works with inner-city kids. THEY are disadvantaged, and maybe their kids will be, and maybe even their grandkids, but this looks more like a classic case of someone just bluntly abusing the system. Obama's daddy was an African, and he's President, but we have to give special perks for a 1/32 Indian? LOL.
Besides, if we all checked our family trees back to our great, great, great grandparents, we may find that a majority--not a minority--of Americans would likely have at least ONE minority in the tree somewhere. So, if we all do this and file for the perks, it becomes no longer a minority program, but a majority program. Again, it's meant for people who would otherwise be excluded because of racism and appearance.
Affirmative-action for things like selecting students wasn't adopted just to give a leg up to people who are somehow disadvantaged by an ancestor. Rather, it was implemented to give obvious minorities a chance to be chosen, with the presumtion being that they would otherwise be subject to exlusion because of their obvious racial difference (i.e., their appearance). Per my understanding, this woman has none of that.
Sometimes, you just have to call a spade a spade and admit the common-sense, on-the-surface appearance of something as the obvious reality. It's not always true, but this looks like one of those cases to me.
I'm not sure I'd call it "fraud". I don't know exactly what I'd call it right now, but it's not good.
Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862 |
Edited by - gotchacovered on 05/25/2012 8:41:21 PM |
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JimIslander
Senior Member
1804 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 8:45:48 PM
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Yeah, I think you and Soup are right on this one. Appears to be an obvious case of gaining advantage at the expense of those for whom the program was meant. Reading what I wrote, even I don't buy it! She's pretty sleazy.
Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pungo 120 |
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hhi angler
Senior Member
2159 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2012 : 2:18:08 PM
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| Wow we finally got to the point another libtard lawyer from Mass. pulling a scam. Teddy would have been proud of her. |
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Mixed Nutz
Senior Member
3527 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 10:59:56 AM
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Not to change the subject, but...."Obama's daddy was an African"....Are we sure about that? There seems to be some argument to that notion!http://www.obamasrealfather.com/
...Politicians aren't the "Oldest Profession", but the results are still the same!!! |
Edited by - Mixed Nutz on 05/27/2012 11:05:55 AM |
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joeboo
Senior Member
321 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 12:18:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mixed Nutz
Not to change the subject, but...."Obama's daddy was an African"....Are we sure about that? There seems to be some argument to that notion!http://www.obamasrealfather.com/
...Politicians aren't the "Oldest Profession", but the results are still the same!!!
From the above link:
"The 'Birthers' have been on a fool's errand. To understand Obama's plans for America, the question is not 'Where's the Birth Certificate?,' the question is 'Who is the real father?'"
The fact that so many rumors are floating around about our President should be a wake up call. Almost 4 years into barry running our country and we still have rumors that barry won't proove or dis-proove. So simple just to address the nation and say "America, here is my college transcripts and also my birth cirtificate, and by the way here are some pictures from my youth, wedding, and Honeymoon trip", but he is above that or scared of it. |
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gotchacovered
Prolific Poster
18376 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 1:14:46 PM
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I don't think Davis was Obama's father, but that isn't the important part to me, anyway. I really don't need theories about paternity to point out the obvious problem there for America because the established facts and testimonies of Obama and his acquaintances, themselves, should be enough. From them, we glean the more important truths and likelihoods--namely, that Davis was a black-power Communist who had influence on Obama's childhood as a family friend, that Obama later ended up palling up with known Communist terrorists (Weatherman Underground), that he espoused Communist ideals in college, and that he ended up going to a black-power chuch for 20 years, later writing about it's pastor as a personal role model in his autobiography.
The funniest part of the Liberal defense is when they say, "stop attacking Jeremiah Wright." He spouts racist black-power and hatred for the white man, and even called for God to "d-mn" the United States, buuuuuut we're "attacking" him when we call attention to it? How disingenuous. Rather, how DEMCORAT.
Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862 |
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Mixed Nutz
Senior Member
3527 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 2:09:27 PM
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I'm not sure who Obama's father is. He might not even know for sure. Although from the pics. in the link, he sure looks more like Davis than his namesake. The shroud of mystery, and secrecy over our nations leader's past, is anything but a coincidence though. I'll say again that no matter where you look in the Democratic Party you find ineptness, and corruption. And the Republicans unwillingness to challenge them on it, leaves me with a very troubling sense of despair.
...Politicians aren't the "Oldest Profession", but the results are still the same!!! |
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Reelly Old
Senior Member
1348 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 2:40:27 PM
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I do not understand how anyone in MA could vote for her for Senate.
How many times did they re-elect that consummate douche bag Chappaquiddick Ted? No question in my mind why she'll get more than a few votes.
The problem with Liz is she hasn't proven a Native-American lineage, even by the loosest genealogical standards. |
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hhi angler
Senior Member
2159 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 10:53:24 AM
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| Actually she has proved anything. She headed up hearings on a consumer finance agency then was rejected by her own party to be the director. |
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Mixed Nutz
Senior Member
3527 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 8:16:04 PM
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Scared Money never Win's!!
...Politicians aren't the "Oldest Profession", but the results are still the same!!! |
Edited by - Mixed Nutz on 05/28/2012 8:17:32 PM |
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DFreedom
Senior Member
6734 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2012 : 3:14:35 PM
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| Lets see, my Grandmother's parents were from Spain. Her husband was from Ireland. That makes my Mother 1/2 Spanish, which makes me 1/4 Spanish. I might start trying to see what advantages I can gain as a result of being "Hispanic". Heck, being "caucasian" hasn't gotten me anything. |
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Fred67
Senior Member
3591 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2012 : 08:39:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mixed Nutz
I'm not sure who Obama's father is. He might not even know for sure. Although from the pics. in the link, he sure looks more like Davis than his namesake. The shroud of mystery, and secrecy over our nations leader's past, is anything but a coincidence though. I'll say again that no matter where you look in the Democratic Party you find ineptness, and corruption. And the Republicans unwillingness to challenge them on it, leaves me with a very troubling sense of despair.
...Politicians aren't the "Oldest Profession", but the results are still the same!!!
The father could always be questioned, but the mother is hard to fake, but how much of her life is a fabrication? Supposedly she met barry's father in Russian class, married him and when he wanted her to go back with him to Kenya she wouldn't because he already had another wife there, she met Lolo re-married and moved to to Jakarta and sent barry back to live with his grandparents at age 10. What mother sends a 10 year old away? Another one you don't see in the media, his mother, father, and step father were confessed atheists.
< Evil is simply the absence of God > |
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Easy
Senior Member
2923 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2012 : 08:52:26 AM
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| Kind of makes you wonder who Barry got his religion from? Mom, or his Grand parents? Oh I know, Rev Wright! Barry did say, that he was his mentor! |
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stonoman
Prolific Poster
12339 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 10:02:37 AM
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She is a frigging Lawyer need I say more!!!
Stonoman |
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Senator Paleface (?) Long, personal story
