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jimmyaadams
Senior Member
623 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2012 : 9:45:57 PM
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I know the price difference is a good bit, but what about the quality?I know you get what you pay for but i really like the bushmaster's price tag. I like the colt but for the price I think a sig is a better gun. i know little about these guns and would love some advice. I do not have unlimited funds so price is a big thing w me. i dont mind saving for a bit longer to get a colt or a sig but just wondering about the bushmaster. thanks guys.
- I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave.
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reel-boy
Senior Member
1720 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 10:46:00 PM
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I have a bushmaster and I have never had any problems at all with it. It fires through most ammo and is very accurate. Definatly worth it.
Reel-Boy
180 Sea Pro
Hey bo............ Watch this
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Floater
Senior Member
306 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 08:38:55 AM
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i could be wrong, but most every AR is built to military specs and from what i understand, all the parts for the different companies come from the same factory. so it does not matter which one you get.
just depends on what name you prefer on your receiver.
if you want to save some money and get EXACTLY what you want, buy a stripped lower receiver and start building.
i highly recommend Palmetto state armory. easy to work with, cheap and semi-local (columbia). |
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JimIslander
Senior Member
1804 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 08:56:25 AM
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Colt is the current contractor for military A4s. Nobody has built more true mil-spec rifles. Their quality control is unmatched. Bushmaster is clown shoes in comparison. Bushmaster is a consumer weapon that is fine for target practice or shooting a couple hundred rounds a year through, but it's not much more than a toy in comparison.
For quality and resale value, it's not even apples and oranges...no contest, COLT.
Same goes for Sig. Colt blows them away in quality.
Head over to WarrierTalk or SOCNET or Lightfighter and spend five minutes reading about what actual Special Forces, SEALS, and Infantry who depend on thier weapons to save their lives think about the Bushmaster vs. Colt.
Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115
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Pungo 120 |
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7cs
Senior Member
1456 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 09:27:26 AM
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http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2259&cid=4
Like a starlet who acted in scores of B-movies before being discovered years after her debut, the AR rifle has suddenly become the darling of shooters nationwide. I dont have to tell you what AR stands for, that its a generic moniker for any modern sporting rifle copied from Colts original AR-15 semi-automatic version of the M16 developed for the U.S. military.
What might help, though, is to explain what distinguishes one brand of AR from another. Beginning with this exclusive first installment for AmericanRifleman.org, Im going to cover ARs from muzzle crown to buttstock and everything in between. My first topic is the term MilSpec and what it means.
Because the AR has become a generic product, like the 1911 pistol, manufacturers have tried to set themselves apart with advertising claims and counter-claims, each of them trumpeting that their brand is better than the others. But how can that be? It would be as if Ford, Chevy, Honda and Volkswagen all decided to make exactly the same pickup truck with different hood ornaments.
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The History of the M-16 Rifle: ..1 How would you tell one truck from another? Youd have to look under the hood. So lets look under the hood of an AR, starting with what its not.
MilSpec Criteria
Heres the deal, and its very simple: Only rifles made for the U.S. military are MilSpec. For more than 50 years and through numerous iterations, experimental models and improved variations, the U.S. military has developed a detailed list of specifications for its service rifle. These military specifications are iron-clad.
MilSpec criteria include every aspect of the rifle, from the materials its made from to the treatment of those materials, the dimensions of components made from those materials, testing of these parts, wear and durability, accuracy, service lifeevery excruciating detail is specified.
Finally, and most importantly, a MilSpec rifle is approved by a U.S. government inspector. The inspection process assures that all rifles bought on a government contract meet the MilSpec and a related criteria called military standard or MilStd.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I present you with the first piece of irrefutable evidence in the case of the falsely advertised AR. A manufacturer cannot claim that its AR is MilSpec. By definition, a MilSpec rifle must be tested and inspected by the government.
If thats not proof enough, consider this: Theres no such thing as a civilian-legal MilSpec rifle. A MilSpec rifle is a rifle made to fulfill a government contract and, as of now, there are only three such animals walking around: the M16A4, which has a three-round burst-fire selector; the M4, which also is equipped with a three-round burst-fire selector; and the M4A1, which is a fully automatic rifle. These are all classified as machine guns and no civilian transfers can take place for any machine gun manufactured after 1986. You cannot legally own a MilSpec AR.
What About Parts?
So if its impossible to own a MilSpec AR, what about an AR made of MilSpec parts? Well, if there were such a thing, the first place to look would be one of the companies that make MilSpec rifles for the government. Perhaps they might have some extra parts lying around that they could use to build a civilian-legal AR?
Colt and FN are the only two government contract holders building the M4 and M4A1, which is the latest, most tacti-cool version of the AR. According to Colt, who ought to know, there is no such thing as a commercial AR that is MilSpec, even if most of the parts are identical to MilSpec parts being used in Colts M4s and M4A1s that are delivered to the government.
Now if anyone has a vested interest in making you believe that their ARs are MilSpec, it would be Colt. After all, the M16 and M4 are built used Colts Technical Data Package (TDP) which is a complex combination of know-how, proprietary techniques, fixtures and proprietary information that the historic manufacturer developed over decades of production. Even FN, their competitor, is required by contract to use Colts TDP.
Yet Colt is the first to admit that their commercial ARs are not MilSpec! I submit to you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that you now have your second and final piece of conclusive evidence that there is no such thing as a MilSpec AR.
However, dont despair. It may be true that theres no such thing as a MilSpec AR or even MilSpec components, but there are indeed ARs made of components that meet the same MilStd or MilSpec criteria as a genuine U.S. military rifle, excluding of course machinge gun parts, illegally short barrels and no government inspection.
To delve into the MilSpec criteria for all the components, sub-components, springs, parts and even the finish of an AR is beyond the scope of this story. However, that information is easily available online. The best sources of such technical information on the AR are the forums over at M4carbine.net.
Rob Sloyer, a member of the site, has put together an extremely useful chart that details each and every part in an AR and shows which manufacturers are complying and which are not.
Too Much Information
After you delve into the minutia of bolt carrier groups, magnetic particle inspections, H-buffers, staked gas keys and all the other indicators of a quality-made AR that, theoretically, meets most of the MilSpec criteria, your brain is going to explode. Its just too much information.
Here, let me make it real easy for you: If your heart is set on making sure your not-possible-to-be MilSpec rifle as close as possible, my advice is to buy a Colt 6920. The 6920 is Colt's semi-auto-only Law Enforcement Carbine with a 16-inch M4-configured barrel, rather than the MilSpec 14.5-inch barrel, and a flat-top receiver.
The street price of a Colt 6920 is about $1,350, but I Googled Colt 6920 for sale and found them at Impact Guns new-in-the-box for $1,199.
You need to comply with all federal and state laws for ordering a gun online, going through your local dealer to handle the FFL paperwork and NICS background check, so add $50 for your dealer to perform this service.
If a Colt 6920 is out of your budget, there are other great ARs out there. Well take a look at some of them in my next installment.
For more, check out AR-15 Tactical Accessories, Customizing an AR, AR Operating Systems: Gas Impingement vs. Piston and The Specs of MilSpec.
CommentSend to Friend Comments
Jesse
7/13/2012 4:54:24 PM
Colt was the original manufacturer of the AR-15 civilian 5.56/223 version of the copied U.S. military M16. Armalite made the AR10 which was a 308 version of the rifle. Colt "edged", to put it politely, Armalite out of the military contract for the 5.56/223 government version. Read "American Rifle" by Alexander Rose to get the full story. Armalite countered with the AR18, a piston-driven gas system rifle that was never accepted by the American shooter ignorant as they are.
PEC
3/12/2012 7:19:10 PM
Colt was not the original manufacturer. It was ArmaLite.
Rob
12/8/2011 10:59:13 PM
Great article. All of your information is true and correct. I work for a Gov agency that deals with this type of thing. Thank you for the ggod read..
Mark
3/27/2011 9:36:46 PM
I was interested in trying to affirm my hope that MILSPEC be it weapons or electronis are all USA made with no 'wafers' from Japan etc. Am a NRA member myself.
BP
2/13/2011 12:37:20 PM
This is false, it is perfectly legal for a Civilian to own a Class 3 or "Mil spec" AR. Please edit this material so as to not further mislead others! http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#legally-acquire-nfa
W.L
10/26/2010 3:02:09 AM
Exactly what are "illegally short barrels"? Short barrels are perfectly legal if you have completed the appropriate paperwork, paid your $200.00 tax to the BATFE and live in a locale that does not prohibit them.
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saltydog235
Senior Member
9739 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 09:59:48 AM
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I've owned a Colt and inherited the Bushmaster I have now. There is no comparison, the Colt is head and shoulders above the BM. That said, my Bushmaster with a PSA upper has been flawless so far but its not going to be a 500+ yard gun. Its plinker and fun gun for me. If I have to do some surgery, I'm pulling out one of my bolt guns anyway.
Mark
Mako 262 Twin Yammaha F200s
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid" John Wayne
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jimmyaadams
Senior Member
623 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 11:28:33 PM
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thanks yall. I just skimmed, too much info for me to read right now after working 14 hrs so ill check it out in the am. I really appreciate it.
7cs,
The street price of a Colt 6920 is about $1,350, but I Googled Colt 6920 for sale and found them at Impact Guns new-in-the-box for $1,199.
this is the one i looked at and kind of have set my mind on. I think it would be better to save for a few more months and get the this one. my dad, who used to sell guns in GA, said i should get this one too. I started w 1000 bucks and opened a scottrade account and said once i have made enough to get a Ar and still have my 1000 bucks that was what i was going to do. point being, i have been waiting for a while and might as well wait it on out. pops said he would help me out a bit too for an early b day present. For that, i am very thankful! Anyway,cant wait to fully read the response and learn some more about them. thanks again.
- I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave.
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7cs
Senior Member
1456 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 08:03:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmyaadams
thanks yall. I just skimmed, too much info for me to read right now after working 14 hrs so ill check it out in the am. I really appreciate it.
7cs,
The street price of a Colt 6920 is about $1,350, but I Googled Colt 6920 for sale and found them at Impact Guns new-in-the-box for $1,199.
this is the one i looked at and kind of have set my mind on. I think it would be better to save for a few more months and get the this one. my dad, who used to sell guns in GA, said i should get this one too. I started w 1000 bucks and opened a scottrade account and said once i have made enough to get a Ar and still have my 1000 bucks that was what i was going to do. point being, i have been waiting for a while and might as well wait it on out. pops said he would help me out a bit too for an early b day present. For that, i am very thankful! Anyway,cant wait to fully read the response and learn some more about them. thanks again.
- I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave.
Sounds like you are well disciplined and a good planner. You will do well. Enjoy your reward when you get it. |
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DueSouth
Senior Member
489 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 8:27:20 PM
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I've got this BM when the ban expired a few years ago. No complaints yet. I really like the removable handle (A3) for different sight options and the lower price than the Colt. I wonder what areas specifically are where the BM lacks in quality that the other posters have stated.
Then again, I'm not going to Afghanistan. Just target shooting out in the country.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/13234
If you ain't hooked, you ain't doing it right.
14' Duracraft w/twin 25 Johnsons
http://www.myspace.com/myduesouth |
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Native_Son
Intermediate Member
60 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 01:41:27 AM
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I'm a recreational target shooter (mostly at Twin Ponds Range, off 17 north of Mt P). I am not an "operator" or a "warrior" and my odds of being in a firefight with a rifle are thankfully very low, although I do think every American male has a duty to be ready just in case. I was in the Army National Guard while I was a cadet at The Citadel, but my military experience ends there.
So, having said that, I notice that when I choose which guns to take to the range (and thus, which ones I become more proficient with) I consider several things like cost of ammo, how fun they are to shoot but a major one is - how much time do they take to clean?
The military / usual AR design with the gas tube that goes straight to the bolt/chamber area to work the action makes a dirty rifle that takes a longer time to clean compared to the AK piston system.
Thus, my AR is an LWRC M6 which has a piston action design which keeps all the gas to work the action up near the front sight. There are other manufacturers making similar AR piston designs as well. The difference is night and day. The M6 is easier to clean after shooting than an AK is.
Twin Ponds is only a 100m range, but I can bounce a 1 gallon plastic milk jug around all day at 100m with iron sights or a red dot sight. I can't give any direct experiences about longer range accuracy, but I am sure it would be good to 300m at least. Here's their basic model: http://www.lwrci.com/p-109-m6a1.aspx
Overall quality, fit and finish is excellent in my opinion.
You have the right to the pursuit of happiness. You do not have a guarantee that you shall have it. |
Edited by - Native_Son on 07/20/2012 01:43:01 AM |
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7cs
Senior Member
1456 Posts |
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USMCsilver
Senior Member
1119 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 6:18:52 PM
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Older Bushmasters were top notch weapons; however, in more recent years, there have been complaints about lacking quality control. If you're lookin' for a good rifle, the Colt is tried and true and is a very good rifle. I own 7 AR's and, IIRC, 3-4 are Bushmasters; they are older ones, but have never let me down.
Today, if looking to buy a good, reliable, affordable rifle, I'd look into PSA (Palmetto State Firearms) or Bravo Company USA, or Daniel Defense, or Spikes Tactical. All great makers with reasonable prices. You also need to think about whether you want a newer piston designed upper, or the standard gas blow-back operation.
If I were to have to buy another rifle tomorrow, in all honesty, it'd probably be a Smith & Wesson M&P series; I think their fit and finish is about as good as it gets for the money and S&W has awesome CS if you need them for anything.
I called this an "AR" in my count, but in reality, I guess it really isn't since it's just a .22. :)
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'05 Wellcraft 232 Coastal rockin' a Yammie F225
'00 Aqua Force Flats 15 w/ Yammie F25
"Kiss my ass, I bought a boat; I'm goin' out to sea." (Jimmy Buffett covering Lovett) |
Edited by - USMCsilver on 07/22/2012 1:43:13 PM |
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JimIslander
Senior Member
1804 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 9:18:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Native_Son
Thus, my AR is an LWRC M6 which has a piston action design which keeps all the gas to work the action up near the front sight. There are other manufacturers making similar AR piston designs as well. The difference is night and day. The M6 is easier to clean after shooting than an AK is.
Twin Ponds is only a 100m range, but I can bounce a 1 gallon plastic milk jug around all day at 100m with iron sights or a red dot sight. I can't give any direct experiences about longer range accuracy, but I am sure it would be good to 300m at least. Here's their basic model: http://www.lwrci.com/p-109-m6a1.aspx
Overall quality, fit and finish is excellent in my opinion.
Same here. One of the best rifles in the industry.
Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pungo 120 |
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USMCsilver
Senior Member
1119 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 9:39:24 PM
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Jim -- a beautiful weapon. I think I've complimented you on that one before.
Curious: what grip are you running? (Not the MOE angled grip, the pistol grip?)
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'05 Wellcraft 232 Coastal rockin' a Yammie F225
'00 Aqua Force Flats 15 w/ Yammie F25
"Kiss my ass, I bought a boat; I'm goin' out to sea." (Jimmy Buffett covering Lovett) |
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JimIslander
Senior Member
1804 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 10:11:52 PM
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USMC,
Thanks! It's an M6A2S (stretch) with mid-length gas system. Great fun to shoot.
That's a CAA UPG grip (made in Israel). Decent grip. Some folks said their storage plug falls out. I have definitely not had this problem. It has a good feel for my large hands.
Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pungo 120 |
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DueSouth
Senior Member
489 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2012 : 3:17:42 PM
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Just got back from Walmart in Oakbrook and they had 4 AR type firearms. Priced from $800+/- to $1100+/-. 2 looked to be in the M4 style and the other two seemed even shorter w/thicker barrels. I didn't have time to check make and models.
This Walmart used to not have guns and I've never seen the AR types at other Walmarts unless the were the longer camo versions.
If you ain't hooked, you ain't doing it right.
14' Duracraft w/twin 25 Johnsons
http://www.myspace.com/myduesouth |
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Native_Son
Intermediate Member
60 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2012 : 06:26:56 AM
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Never heard of Wal Mart having AR type rifles before. Interesting.
JimI - I've also got the Aimpoint H1 red dot sight on mine. I've got it zeroed spot-on at 50m which seems to be the best for 5.56 / 55 grain ballistics, point of aim and point of impact are within 3" out to 250m.
You have the right to the pursuit of happiness. You do not have a guarantee that you shall have it. |
Edited by - Native_Son on 07/22/2012 09:59:12 AM |
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member
1548 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2012 : 08:28:34 AM
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I was recently in Walmart in Rincon, GA and they had a rack full of AR type rifles. Never seen them there before either.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
Marine Surveying & Repair |
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JimIslander
Senior Member
1804 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2012 : 09:30:31 AM
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Seen many Walmarts with AR-style weapons. Just depends on the state and the store. I travel a lot and always visit various Walmarts, usually to pick up ammo to fly home with.
Native,
I also zero my Aimpoint (T1, 4 MOA) at 50 yards. Just have to compensate when close (aim ~2.5" high). Fantastic sight that you shoot with both eyes open, maintaining excellent situational awareness. Getting ready to put a red dot on one of my Glocks as well, because I can no longer get a clear focus on iron sights with these old eyes.
Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pungo 120 |
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Native_Son
Intermediate Member
60 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2012 : 10:02:06 AM
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I had never owned a "red dot sight" before I put this one on this rifle. I always thought "iron sights are good enough for me" (which they are, but...).
When I first used it, that changed my mind right away. It makes acquiring the target and hitting it a lot faster and easier.
So, to the original poster, please consider that if you haven't already no matter which AR you get.
You have the right to the pursuit of happiness. You do not have a guarantee that you shall have it. |
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7cs
Senior Member
1456 Posts |
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tigerfin
Senior Member
652 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 12:35:50 PM
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Look at Palmetto state armory. They manufacture them right here in SC. They have a store in Beaufort and two in Columbia. I have two from them and they have both been awesome. Can't beat the price either. Last Christmas they ran a sale and I bought an M4 base model for around 700 bucks.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki |
Edited by - tigerfin on 09/06/2012 12:46:15 PM |
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bushmaster AR vs colt
