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OVER THE LEDGE
Senior Member

896 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2012 :  10:03:48 PM  Show Profile Send OVER THE LEDGE a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have fished offshore Charleston for 30 Years! I have never seen so many Black Sea Bass out near the ledge. Also, the Black Sea Bass we caught were spitting up small vermillion snapper on the deck(first for me). Just my 2 cents

oops_lost
Senior Member



575 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  07:19:43 AM  Show Profile Send oops_lost a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We went on to around 70+ feet with live bait looking for some grouper but couldn't get a bait to stay longer than one minute before being eaten by a BSB. The one good thing about closing the BSB season is they are recovering well, the bad thing is they are eating everything that will fit in their mouths. I dropped some 200g jigs and caught BSB that were only 2 inched bigger than the jig.

A wise man once said "Do as I say not as I do" Good advice when I tell you that.
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Airbus A320
Intermediate Member



119 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  1:01:27 PM  Show Profile Send Airbus A320 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The seabass need a roundup not a closure.. I have been attacked by them in the past one attached to my face pic below... Also been bitten by triggers and man they can bite.

I have shot 15lb fish and watched a single seabass come up and hit it acting like it was a 50lb grouper hitting a tinker mackeral. Almost like watching a comedy






Edited by - Airbus A320 on 09/03/2012 1:02:15 PM
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Hurricane701
Senior Member



2310 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  8:48:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hurricane701's Homepage Send Hurricane701 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hopefully the aggressive Sea Bass found the end of your spear

Bragging may not bring happiness,
but no man having caught a large fish,
goes home through the alley.
-Anonymous
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weston t
Senior Member



216 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  9:03:27 PM  Show Profile Send weston t a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I went out of Murrels inlet this Saturday just kida messing around we fished between the breaks and the parking lot in about of 100 ft of water
We fished with live pin fish trying to catch some grouper we caught 3 scamps and we also fished with squid and caught our limit of sea bass but the biggest sea bass was like 3 pounds

Weston t
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springtide
Senior Member



493 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  9:24:58 PM  Show Profile Send springtide a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm very concerned about the long term effects of other species the large number of Sea Bass are feeding on. I've had them spitting up small Vermillion a number of times. Best Sea Bass trip I ever had was out of Edisto and we were baiting up with the 5" Vermillions the Sea Bass were spitting up on the deck and sending them back down. The powers that be better get a handle on this... if it's not too late alread.

"Temptation may lean on the doorbell... opportunity may only knock once"
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DownandOut
Senior Member



246 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  10:32:47 PM  Show Profile Send DownandOut a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
We went on to around 70+ feet with live bait looking for some grouper but couldn't get a bait to stay longer than one minute before being eaten by a BSB. The one good thing about closing the BSB season is they are recovering well, the bad thing is they are eating everything that will fit in their mouths. I dropped some 200g jigs and caught BSB that were only 2 inched bigger than the jig.



Sorry OPPS but I must respectfully disagree with you! Recovering?? Even before the closure if you were not limiting on BSB then you were doing something terribly wrong. They were plentiful and are now a nuisance. Sorry just my .02

36 Contender Fisharound
Are We There Yet?

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Realfin
Junior Member



46 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  11:08:54 AM  Show Profile Send Realfin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Four of us fished Friday at 80 ft.to 100ft. Three used 3-5 0z. jigs with circle hooks (no natural bait), and one tried bait. None could get to the bottom. We caught 200+ bsb, and we guessed that 90% were 14" or better. Fished half a dozen places, and caught fish on all of them. Had to vent all fish caught at 100 ft.. Is it possible to get out of them to catch any other bottom fish?
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skinneej
Prolific Poster



13142 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  11:22:01 AM  Show Profile Send skinneej a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by springtide

I'm very concerned about the long term effects of other species the large number of Sea Bass are feeding on. I've had them spitting up small Vermillion a number of times. Best Sea Bass trip I ever had was out of Edisto and we were baiting up with the 5" Vermillions the Sea Bass were spitting up on the deck and sending them back down. The powers that be better get a handle on this... if it's not too late alread.

"Temptation may lean on the doorbell... opportunity may only knock once"

Just be careful what you ask for. I'm about 99% confident that the SAFMC is using what you write to promote their 20+ year vision for LARGE MPA's. Don't get suckered into "Ecosystem Based Management". Their long term vision is to close off 70% of our fishing grounds (i.e. "No fishing zones") and then relax regulations outside of that zone. They have purposely made these limits complex with the full understanding that they will eventually fail so that they can position us into thinking that we only have 1 choice left... Large closures...

Digest on that for a bit and you will see how intelligent, but deceiving their plan is...

And please realize. This is not a "conspiracy theory". I do NOT believe that they want to shut down all fishing. I believe that they honestly believe large scale MPA's are the "correct" way to manage a fishery, but they are having a hard time selling that notion to the public, so they need a better angle...
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dreamin-on
Senior Member



212 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  11:29:31 AM  Show Profile Send dreamin-on a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still fail to understand why this applies to Recreational Fisherman.
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skinneej
Prolific Poster



13142 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  11:40:29 AM  Show Profile Send skinneej a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dreamin-on

I still fail to understand why this applies to Recreational Fisherman.

Because we are easy to pick on and don't put up much of a fight... Honestly though, I agree with this statement for the Carolinas down to Central Florida, but I think that South Florida and the Keys, the recreationals are just as responsible (if not MORE responsible). Honestly, I don't have any problem with commercial hook and line fishing as long as it's reasonably regulated, though it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see the remaining commercial fish traps disappear.

There hasn't been any overfishing since they outlawed bottom trawling (1988) and bottom longlining (1997). It just takes a while for fishing stocks to recover.

Edited by - skinneej on 09/04/2012 11:45:30 AM
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Phin
Prolific Poster



13122 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  12:20:15 PM  Show Profile Send Phin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You boys still are confused from the reading of all this.....


C bass were a NUISANCE before,

and now they are a NIGHTMARE.



Split the management up and do it by state unless you want to be catching only C bass on your favorite trout spot up the Wando.

There were already too many, and they only have one place to go......


If you disagree with me, then you desperately need to buy a legit sonar machine, read the owner's manual for it, and fish somewhere besides the most "unhealthy" reefs off the coast (the larger public artificial structure that gets pounded 100,000's of times a year by recreationals).

There are millions of acres of hardbottom off SC that all see 1/1,000 of the pressure of the artificial reefs where you may not limit on C bass in one drop.




---
www.scmarine.org
---
www.joinrfa.com
---
Luke 8:22-25

Edited by - Phin on 09/04/2012 12:21:42 PM
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skinneej
Prolific Poster



13142 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  12:43:26 PM  Show Profile Send skinneej a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Phin, I am not confused by it at all... What I am suggesting is that they are playing "good cop\bad cop" with us... The "bad cop" is supposed to be the current system. They are doing everything that they can to make us hate it including overpopulation of Sea Bass. They want us to beg to them to see the "good cop" which is their 20+ year ideal of "Ecosystem Based Management"...

Again, I understand things perfectly. I am suggesting that there are a handful of people on the council (hmmm... who has been involved for 20+ years and hold "influential positions" inside of the council?) that would love nothing more than to see the current system fail so that they can replace it with a system that they have been dreaming about for the majority of their career...
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skinneej
Prolific Poster



13142 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  12:45:30 PM  Show Profile Send skinneej a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SAFMC says
Oh, you guys don't like:

1) Shorter seasons
2) A bible of fishing laws and confusing bag limits
3) Overpopulation of species in certain areas
4) Restricting fishing to the most unproductive times of year
5) List goes on and on and on....

Oh yeah, we do have this other system that may make your life easier... We call it "Ecosystem Based Management"... Nah, you guys wouldn't want that now,... would you??? You know what? Forget we brought it up... It was a stupid idea anyway... I feel silly for mentioning it...

Fisherman says:
No! No! Please tell us more about this "Ecosystem Based Management". I would do just about anything to change the current situation!!! ANYTHING!!!

SAFMC Says:
Really? We had no idea things were so confusing... Okay, if you guys insist, let's talk about it... You see, it works like a popcorn machine... You see that large area out there we call "The Black Banks" and that other one north of it called "The Red Banks"? Yeah? Okay, let's pretend that is the little silver box where we put all of the kernels. Of course, you know that you never eat popcorn inside of the little silver box... However, you guys can fight over anything that falls to the bottom of the machine, or outside of that little silver box. No limits! No confusing rules, etc! We literally don't care if you eat every last popped kernel as long as you don't touch the silver box. The tiny little crumbs taste better anyway. You do like popcorn, don't you? Well, that is our "Ecosystem Based Management" plan! I'll go get the butter while you dumbasses, I mean fisherman figure out which plan you want to use!!!

Edited by - skinneej on 09/04/2012 1:00:53 PM
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Phin
Prolific Poster



13122 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  12:53:17 PM  Show Profile Send Phin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I fully agree with you SJ.

C bass mismanagement is yet another straw being added to what's beating the camel's back. It makes us want to accept things like catch shares (a scheme to make the govt agencies and certain private folks more money even long after their jobs of rebuilding fisheries have long been completed) and MPA's (a cheaper, less complicated, "proven" (YEAH RIGHT) mode of management that is a huge infringement on your freedom and directly in conflict of the public trust doctrine that's been around for the entire history of western civilization)!





My post was directed at what some others here said, which seems to be what the majority of amateur recreational anglers like us think (based on most of our own personal experiences and common sense). Most will think "wow the C bass population is exploding- the ban clearly is making a difference." What those folks do not understand is how overpopulation can be even more devastating to a habitat than under-population......







---
www.scmarine.org
---
www.joinrfa.com
---
Luke 8:22-25
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skinneej
Prolific Poster



13142 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  12:58:05 PM  Show Profile Send skinneej a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Phin

I fully agree with you SJ.

C bass mismanagement is yet another straw being added to what's beating the camel's back. It makes us want to accept things like catch shares (a scheme to make the govt agencies and certain private folks more money even long after their jobs of rebuilding fisheries have long been completed) and MPA's (a cheaper, less complicated, "proven" (YEAH RIGHT) mode of management that is a huge infringement on your freedom and directly in conflict of the public trust doctrine that's been around for the entire history of western civilization)!





My post was directed at what some others here said, which seems to be what the majority of amateur recreational anglers like us think (based on most of our own personal experiences and common sense). Most will think "wow the C bass population is exploding- the ban clearly is making a difference." What those folks do not understand is how overpopulation can be even more devastating to a habitat than under-population......







---
www.scmarine.org
---
www.joinrfa.com
---
Luke 8:22-25


Agreed.
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dreamin-on
Senior Member



212 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  1:08:44 PM  Show Profile Send dreamin-on a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Phin


There are millions of acres of hardbottom off SC that all see 1/1,000 of the pressure of the artificial reefs where you may not limit on C bass in one drop.




And this is where I fish. Seriously, I hate catching these pests.

I have always thought that since we were part of the South Atlantic, that all of Florida's overfishing were grand totaled into our #'s. I don't see the overfishing here in SC.
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skinneej
Prolific Poster



13142 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  3:23:59 PM  Show Profile Send skinneej a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dreamin-on

quote:
Originally posted by Phin


There are millions of acres of hardbottom off SC that all see 1/1,000 of the pressure of the artificial reefs where you may not limit on C bass in one drop.




And this is where I fish. Seriously, I hate catching these pests.

I have always thought that since we were part of the South Atlantic, that all of Florida's overfishing were grand totaled into our #'s. I don't see the overfishing here in SC.

No doubt. I won't argue that there wasn't overfishing in our water in the 80's and 90's when the bottom trawlers and bottom longliners were around, but anybody who is on the water nowadays understands what little pressure remains on our abundant resources, and the fact that each year, they catch more bottom fish than they did last year.

However, if you look at Florida, and particularly South Florida (I'll say at least Jupiter and South including the keys), you see real quickly that there aren't nearly the abundance of fish as there is elsewhere. In addition, certain species (take hogfish for instance) common size seems to mirror the legal size. In other words, if the legal size is 12", 90% of the fish you see around are 11.99" long, because as soon as they hit 12" they are dead. Now, I am not saying that there aren't any 20" hogs left in Florida, but they aren't nearly as common as 12" hogs.

It also doesn't help that the SEDAR committee is not very good at reading charts and graphs. The whole basis on the red snapper shut down is that catch surveys showed way more young fish than older fish. While that is exactly what you might see in the South Florida hogfish fishery, there is also another phenomenon that can explain this chart. And that is the fact that an EXPANDING population of fish would also have more and more young fish every year, and show a parabolic curve on the chart. Thus, if you do believe that we had incurred "overfishing" in the 70's, 80's, and even through the late 90's, but believe that we have had an incredible rebound in red snapper that started in the early 2000's, then it would make perfect sense to you why you would expect to see a LOT more young fish than you would 20 year old red snappers.

Unfortunately, they don't realize that the chart of a recovering fish population can show this, because they have never seen this before. And when all you have is a hammer, everything around you tends to look like a nail.

Edited by - skinneej on 09/04/2012 4:33:44 PM
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skinneej
Prolific Poster



13142 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  3:30:29 PM  Show Profile Send skinneej a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, why did I choose Jupiter? The major reason is the "big ledge", "60 fathom curve", "continental shelf", or whatever you want to call it. Look at how far it is off the SC coast. Where does it start to pinch down and form a "bottleneck" in fish habitat? Probably somewhere around Jupiter. This squeezes a lot more fish into a lot less habitat and covers them up with a lot more fisherman (i.e. No place to hide). Take Boynton Beach for instance. 200' of water is probably only about 2-3 miles offshore. Compared to SC, bottom fishing flat out sucks there. If you asked a local guy in Boynton that grew up there, they would say it's "Great", but that's because they don't know any better. Just from reading fishing reports and looking at hundreds of photos, etc, it does seem that fishing starts to get a little bit better around Jupiter and north, though Jupiter is still nowhere near as good as SC\GA\North Florida. So it's probably on the fringe...

Edited by - skinneej on 09/04/2012 3:31:37 PM
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Realfin
Junior Member



46 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  5:59:37 PM  Show Profile Send Realfin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Skinnej, your knowledge of the salt certainly surpasses mine, and you have been forefront to keep our fisheries open to all of us. But I beg to disagree with you when you say there is no conspiracy. It is easy for us to forget that there are so many people in this country who have no sympathy for our cause.They may have good intentions - to save the world - but They are perfectly willing to do it at the expense of those of us who like to fish (and hunt). They go by all sorts of names, from this Club to that Foundation, but, make no mistake about it, They are conspiring against us, and They have lots of dollars to help sell their cause. I have caught my fish and killed my game, but I really fear for the freedom of my grandchildren to legally do the same. Worst, They have made it appear that what is illegal is also un-ethical, and I struggle with the difference.
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skinneej
Prolific Poster



13142 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  6:28:19 PM  Show Profile Send skinneej a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Realfin

Skinnej, your knowledge of the salt certainly surpasses mine, and you have been forefront to keep our fisheries open to all of us. But I beg to disagree with you when you say there is no conspiracy. It is easy for us to forget that there are so many people in this country who have no sympathy for our cause.They may have good intentions - to save the world - but They are perfectly willing to do it at the expense of those of us who like to fish (and hunt). They go by all sorts of names, from this Club to that Foundation, but, make no mistake about it, They are conspiring against us, and They have lots of dollars to help sell their cause. I have caught my fish and killed my game, but I really fear for the freedom of my grandchildren to legally do the same. Worst, They have made it appear that what is illegal is also un-ethical, and I struggle with the difference.

Can't say that I disagree.

I guess that I should have been a bit more specific. There are all sorts of conspiracies out there, and I guess it depends on how one defines a "conspiracy". You are right... There are definitely groups out there that want to "save the world" and don't care if they step on fishermen. I believe that accurately represents PEW (at least what I believe their motivation to be). I also think that there are a couple influencers in the council who have been around for 20+ years who have made the decision decades ago that the only way to manage a fishery is through MPA's and their mission is how do we get there. I think that they just talk through both sides of their mouth to get what they want from fisherman and PEW ultimately to acheive their goal. Again, I've seen at least one of them eating sushi @ Nakato in West Ashley, so I know it's not that he cries every time a fish dies. I think he honestly just isn't intelligent enough to think outside of the box. It's more of an IQ thing, if you will...

I've said this before, but if the council was full of fisherman, things would work a lot differently and be much more successful.

There are so many tools that can be used to manage a fishery from restocking, rebuilding habitat, regulations, education, community outreach etc. Our own SCDNR, and many other state agencies has\have used many of these tools and have had incredible success. Unfortunately, the feds only use 1 tool - that of regulation. Not only is that the tool that hurts fisherman the most, it's not the only tool needed to manage a resource. Ultimately this council will collapse. Ultimately, they will be deemed a complete failure. Unfortunately, it probably won't be for several more decades.

I'll give you an example with gag grouper... It's well studied that juvenile gag grouper use SC estuaries in the early spring and slowly move offshore as they get older. SC biologists even know the exact range of water temperatures that help these juvenile fish thrive. They also know which estuaries are being used and lot's about the diet of these juvenile grouper. With all of that information, we could easily using stocking techniques and release juveniles into these estuaries at the exact moment conditions are favorable, etc.. It's also noted that gags depend on oyster beds in their early ages. Look at what SCDNR (State) has done with oyster habitat rebuilding over the past several decades. Does SAFMC (Federal) do any of this? No... Their excuse? Not enough money and not authorized to do it...

Why doesn't SC do this for Grouper? Because grouper is federally managed.

Edited by - skinneej on 09/04/2012 7:01:20 PM
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sellsfish
Senior Member



5185 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  7:58:40 PM  Show Profile Send sellsfish a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Call him out Skinny.....DAVID CUPKA is the one that wants MPA's . DAVID CUPKA pushed for the red snapper and black sea bass closures. DAVID CUPKA was the one pushing for the complete shutdown of all bottom fishing from 90' to 240'. DAVID CUPKA could care a rats @ss what fisherman think. He is hell bent on the most restrictive rules that can be adopted. DAVID CUPKA has been on the board to long, and there needs to be new blood on the board. Gov. Haley screwed all the fishermen when she re appointed this tree hugging eco-nut to 3 more years on the board. DAVID CUPKA also has great influence on who can be appointed to the advisory panels. They only want sheeple that will fall in line with their agenda. Why do you think that neither Wes or I are on the panel

.




NMFS = No More Fishing Season


"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him"
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Airbus A320
Intermediate Member



119 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  10:47:38 PM  Show Profile Send Airbus A320 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Awesome discussion but Phin is right. Last week we actually caught more grouper and ars than seabass but if you hit the artifical reefs and the seabass are out of control. The pics i have posted above are at the tire reef and the ross.

Diving live bottom we see seabass on every dive but there is a better balance. Seems the grouper are eating well offshore. Whats more of a concern is the lionfish. We did a drop in 150 on a wreck and there were hundreds of lionfish on it
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ladyshrimpkilla
Senior Member



767 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  11:13:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit ladyshrimpkilla's Homepage Send ladyshrimpkilla a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I caught a 14.7 inch sea bass up Shem Creek yesterday on a baby flounder that bit my electric chicken while cleaning short grouper.

I should have weighed him in for the trident.

With rates so low, now may be the perfect time to refinance or purchase your dream home. If you are thinking about home financing give me a ring!

Heather Leman
Direct: 843-343-8169
NMLS# 279616
hleman@primelending.com
www.shakeyourbouy.com
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capehorn 16
Senior Member



3173 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2012 :  04:52:53 AM  Show Profile Send capehorn 16 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ladyshrimpkilla

I caught a 14.7 inch sea bass up Shem Creek yesterday on a baby flounder that bit my electric chicken while cleaning short grouper.

I should have weighed him in for the trident.

With rates so low, now may be the perfect time to refinance or purchase your dream home. If you are thinking about home financing give me a ring!

Heather Leman
Direct: 843-343-8169
NMLS# 279616
hleman@primelending.com
www.shakeyourbouy.com





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Magezzi
Senior Member

295 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2012 :  08:05:00 AM  Show Profile Send Magezzi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Careful now Airbus....are you saying that Lionfish which are NOT PROTECTED are a bigger problem than bsb which ARE PROTECTED? Next thing you know LSK will be losing her bsb to them fishing off the deck at Reds! All kidding aside I have only been fishing out of Charleston for 7 years and I'm sure a lot of my "data" is skewed since I hope I have become more proficient at catching stuff. However in one area in 110-120 feet that I have fished regularly it used to be that vermillion were hands down the #1 fish we would catch followed by triggers, and occasional pinky and NO bsbs. This year in the same area #1 is bsb (of all sizes), followed by red porgy (mostly undersized) and only an occasional vermillion. Recently, the bsb seem to have been feeding mostly on crabs and other crunchy critters although earlier in the year they were definitely tossing up baby vermillions. So, is this just me or are the rest of you seeing a similar shift in species abundance?

26' Glacier Bay
Mistress
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