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RussB
Senior Member

4202 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  09:42:08 AM  Show Profile Send RussB a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's one thing to get caught in a storm while at sea, Quite the opposite to leave port while it's bearing down on you. Kind of like leaving the dock in a dense fog versus getting caught out in the fog.

Peoples actions can have dire consequences on others safety. I just hope none of the rescue personnel are injured. They are the ones putting thier life on the line for someone elses bad decisions.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/29/14775512-helicopter-sent-to-rescue-17-people-who-abandoned-hms-bounty-off-nc-coast

Russ B.
www.joinrfa.org
God is great, Beer is good, People are crazy

http://www.facebook.com/RussbMaritimeServices





DFreedom
Senior Member



8776 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  10:18:01 AM  Show Profile Send DFreedom a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope the ship survives the storm. As for the people................well, what can you say?
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BREEZE1
Senior Member



177 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  11:12:50 AM  Show Profile Send BREEZE1 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
STUPID!

1802 MITCHEL CC
21' NEWPORT DAYSAILER
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Mixed Nutz
Senior Member



3705 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  11:17:15 AM  Show Profile Send Mixed Nutz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So how many people were on board the ship, 14, 16, 17? Did the Captain go down with the ship, leaving 16 survivors, two of which fell out of the life boats? I'd hate to think that the USCG is out hunting for survivors in this storm, that were never there to begin with!!

...Politicians aren't the "Oldest Profession", but the results are still the same!!!
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Fishb8
Senior Member



7273 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  11:24:05 AM  Show Profile Send Fishb8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ship is down. Coast Guard has rescued all but 2 people so far. rescue continues.


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sellsfish
Senior Member



5339 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  11:55:14 AM  Show Profile Send sellsfish a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WHY????? Everyone knew this was coming......make port! The Captain needs to be charged with putting the crew in harms way. I hope they find the missing crewmen.

.




NMFS = No More Fishing Season


"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him"
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member



3214 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  12:14:22 PM  Show Profile Send Cracker Larry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'm going to risk going against the grain here, and I know this is a tough crowd

It's really standard practice for small ships to do exactly what they did. Those ships cannot survive the storm inshore tied to a dock or anchored. It will get beat to death against the dock or wind up washed 6 blocks inland. or miles up in the marsh. If you were around Charleston during Hugo, you saw shrimp boats scattered all over downtown. The ones that survived rode it out at sea. Ships of this size typically put to sea and try to get as much sea room as possible. Most boats of this size can handle a 100 mph storm in open ocean, but won't last the day tied to a dock with a 20' storm surge.

I'm sure that was the reasoning, but sure hope it turns out well for everybody involved



Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
Marine Surveying & Repair
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sternline
Senior Member



1273 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  1:29:10 PM  Show Profile Send sternline a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Right you are CL.
Back in 1954 we were caught in Carol (Cat 3) while Summering near Newport, RI.
We watched all the Navy ships in Narraganset Bay head for the open ocean to get sea room to ride out the hurricane.
Some sight, wave spray was flying over the bridge decks of the destroyers.

"Watch what we do, not what we say." John Mitchell
Sea Hunt Triton 202
Yammy 150

Edited by - sternline on 10/29/2012 1:32:13 PM
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sellsfish
Senior Member



5339 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  2:03:20 PM  Show Profile Send sellsfish a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Larry, that is true for a direct strike, but they knew this storm was going north of the Carolinas.....They would have done just fine in any North Carolina port.

.




NMFS = No More Fishing Season


"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him"
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member



3214 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  3:17:49 PM  Show Profile Send Cracker Larry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't know, Sellsfish. I've met that Capt. a few times and been on the boat. He is very experienced and knows what he's doing. Been around the world a few times and has saltwater for blood. This isn't his first hurricane. It's his decision, he knows his boat, he knows his and his crew's ability and condition. You can bet he considered all options carefully.

quote:

but they knew this storm was going north of the Carolinas.....They would have done just fine in any North Carolina port.


They don't ever "know" where a storm is going, they just speculate. Hugo was forcast to hit Savannah, until the last 2 hours when it wobbled. The HMS Bounty is not a fast ship, and to have been 90 miles out means he started a couple of days earlier. Not sure where he started from, but it's a 6 mph. boat. I know of some Savannah shrimp boats that went out early too, and they were a lot further south. For a ship, sea room is everything.

Of course, the fact that it sunk makes the decision questionable from our armchairs, but it was probably still the right call. I'm sure an Admiralty court will decide that now, but it is standard practice. These people aren't weekend fishermen in center console boats.




Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
Marine Surveying & Repair

Edited by - Cracker Larry on 10/29/2012 3:19:07 PM
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member



3214 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  4:09:46 PM  Show Profile Send Cracker Larry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Investigation reveals the ship was in route from Connecticut to St. Petersburg, FL, so it had to leave port days before any reliable landfall forecasts, or maybe even before the storm formed and posed a threat. Once you are out there, it is what it is with a slow ship. The open ocean is safer than the shoreline. Yall can second guess him and call him stupid all you want, but he isn't stupid, just unlucky

The USCG has picked up 14 crew members and still looking for 2 more. God bless the CG, and those 2.

The CG reported the winds at 45 kts. at the rescue location. That's not even a stiff breeze for that ship.

Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
Marine Surveying & Repair
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sternline
Senior Member



1273 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  4:28:14 PM  Show Profile Send sternline a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"The vessel was reportedly taking on water and was without propulsion. On scene weather is reported to be 40 mph winds and 18-foot seas."
From the CG report-lost their engine, their rudder? Guess we will know more later.
Sounds rough but not so rough a that ship like the "Bounty" couldn't survive.

"Watch what we do, not what we say." John Mitchell
Sea Hunt Triton 202
Yammy 150
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penfishn
Prolific Poster



12752 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  4:31:12 PM  Show Profile Send penfishn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope that they find the missing crew. May God Bless and keep safe the coast guard crew too. We have so many "everyday heros",That often aren't thanked for the jobs they do.



miss'n fish'n

212 SEAHUNT CC
Sea Squirt 16
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sellsfish
Senior Member



5339 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  4:36:20 PM  Show Profile Send sellsfish a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Captain is one of the missing

.




NMFS = No More Fishing Season


"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him"
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wolfie
Senior Member



242 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  4:50:03 PM  Show Profile Send wolfie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
pretty sure I saw earlier that the coast guard was in communication with the vessel and monitoring the situation since yesterday sometime? Apparently they lost propulsion and were taking on water some time ago, I guess they were still attempting repairs or just trying to ride it out. Capt & crew must have stayed on the vessel for a while before setting out in life rafts, that's a choice I wouldn't want to have to make! Sad that they finally had to give up the ship, hope the missing are found.

--------------
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member



3214 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  5:25:15 PM  Show Profile Send Cracker Larry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Captain is one of the missing


Yep, which means that he got almost all his people safe, into survival suits and into rafts, and rescued, and did what he could for his ship. Stupid he was not.



Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
Marine Surveying & Repair
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RussB
Senior Member



4202 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2012 :  6:05:03 PM  Show Profile Send RussB a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stupid? No. Did he make a calculated bad decision? IMO Yes. What is the number one priority of a Captain, To ensure the safety of his crew first, ship second. No person, including rescue personnel would have been put in harms way had he stayed in port. There was plenty of advance notice of the storms arrival and potential track line. He made a bad calculated risk decision IMO. Just have to see what the CG BOI has to say about it all.

(Before you say I don't know what I'm talking about in this matter Larry, I've sailed around the world twice in a much smaller boat then the Bounty, so I know a thing or two about this topic.} :)

Russ B.
www.joinrfa.org
God is great, Beer is good, People are crazy

http://www.facebook.com/RussbMaritimeServices






Edited by - RussB on 10/29/2012 6:08:41 PM
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Cracker Larry
Senior Member



3214 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  08:26:44 AM  Show Profile Send Cracker Larry a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I didn't say you didn't know what you are talking about, Russ, but many professional seamen disagree with you.


quote:
Capt. Herb Carroll, known on Facebook as Msts Blyth, also stated, Knowing and having a greatest of respect for Capt. Robin Walbridge, he made the right decision to go out and weather the storm, rather than to remain in port and be pounded to pieces! His decision to abandon would have been taken for the sake of the crew! The ship would carry on, but the crew would have been exhausted, and a danger to both the ship and themselves! Good call Robin! In a similar position I would do the same!!


Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
Marine Surveying & Repair
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skinneej
Prolific Poster



13581 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  09:32:11 AM  Show Profile Send skinneej a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cracker Larry

Investigation reveals the ship was in route from Connecticut to St. Petersburg, FL,

Why not go the other way?
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pescazorro
Senior Member



468 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  09:47:17 AM  Show Profile Send pescazorro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by skinneej

quote:
Originally posted by Cracker Larry

Investigation reveals the ship was in route from Connecticut to St. Petersburg, FL,

Why not go the other way?



Or straight out to sea? Although, i guess its not like you can just buzz around in that kind of boat. It just seems like heading straight into the general direction of the storm would have been the least favorable option but then again i am not a professional in such matters.

"Endeavor to Persevere.
Give,Give.. Never Take."
EC
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Fishb8
Senior Member



7273 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  09:57:58 AM  Show Profile Send Fishb8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have zero experience with this, but I'm curious. If the boat can max 6 mph, into a 45kt wind and 18 ft seas, can you really control it? seems to me that at 6 mph it would be almost impossible to keep the bow into the waves.


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flatscaster
Senior Member



2548 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  10:41:14 AM  Show Profile Send flatscaster a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cracker Larry

Well, I'm going to risk going against the grain here, and I know this is a tough crowd

It's really standard practice for small ships to do exactly what they did. Those ships cannot survive the storm inshore tied to a dock or anchored. It will get beat to death against the dock or wind up washed 6 blocks inland. or miles up in the marsh. If you were around Charleston during Hugo, you saw shrimp boats scattered all over downtown. The ones that survived rode it out at sea. Ships of this size typically put to sea and try to get as much sea room as possible. Most boats of this size can handle a 100 mph storm in open ocean, but won't last the day tied to a dock with a 20' storm surge.

I'm sure that was the reasoning, but sure hope it turns out well for everybody involved



Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
Marine Surveying & Repair



When i was a deckhand we took the big boats (110')up the river and into big creeks ran them into the lee sides of marsh islands, three anchors and let them ride.

"they" do say that it's safer for a boat to be out of port during a storm, but I haven't heard what "they" say about how much safer it is for the humans on board.

It sure seems ass-backward to risk lives to save a toy boat.
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RussB
Senior Member



4202 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  1:45:21 PM  Show Profile Send RussB a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say from the end results it is quite apparent that he made a bad decision in leaving port. I don't think anyone, professional seaman or not can dispute that fact.

Russ B.
www.joinrfa.org
God is great, Beer is good, People are crazy

http://www.facebook.com/RussbMaritimeServices





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pescazorro
Senior Member



468 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  1:51:04 PM  Show Profile Send pescazorro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seriously though, if i were hell bent on saving the ship, it seems to me the safest option would have been to head straight for europe instead of in the general direction of the storm. Am i wrong?

"Endeavor to Persevere.
Give,Give.. Never Take."
EC
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RussB
Senior Member



4202 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  2:31:21 PM  Show Profile Send RussB a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Apparently they were on a tight time schedule to get to St.Petersburg by Nov. 10th.

Russ B.
www.joinrfa.org
God is great, Beer is good, People are crazy

http://www.facebook.com/RussbMaritimeServices





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DG34YF
Senior Member



203 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2012 :  6:28:02 PM  Show Profile Send DG34YF a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Skipper and a crew member missing.
Larger vessels that put out to sea to avoid a storm in port do so with the intention of avoiding the worst of it out there too.
She left out with all things considered no doubt.
Been on boats where the Company wanted it underway, period, there's always a boat driver on the beach who's willing to say "I can".
A mechanical issue and maybe a storm tracking variance left them in the path. When water in > water out, it's over. When that call is to be made, it rests on one man.
Not all abandon ship incidents in severe weather work out too well.
Good to hear the rescue unit got who they did.
There will be reports and lessons learned by folks behind keyboards.
Those that survived will remember the hours up to their rescue. Hopefully those lost will be remembered for doing all possible for the vessel and crew as a whole.
All too often it's those who second guess a decision once things have gone bad, they would be the first to claim it was them who made it happen if all goes well.
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